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Offline Jeram

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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 10:50:13 PM »
The Ossa is already fuel injected.  I am just waiting to see a moto version. 

Im waiting to see an SMR version... Im holding my breath but dont know how long to hold for lol
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Jeram

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 10:54:03 PM »
I can't see the pics...it's all "x".   Bummer that it's blocked at work. 

 I'm not sure why some of you are so hung up on EFI. 

An injected KTM 250SX should in theory have a 45mm+ throttle body without loosing low end fueling... thats why Im excited.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline cnrcpla

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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 10:59:44 PM »
Everyone (most of us) are excited for the EFI systems in the bikes because it is a step forward in two stroke evolution. It could mark the come back of two strokes. In my opinion as an engine mechanic I prefer carb because I already know how to fix them  ;D But, I would reaaaalllyy like to see (ride one would be even better) an EFI two stroke. In my opinion. Others could have different reasons for their liking or disliking of the EFI...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 11:41:17 PM »
EFI is not a step anywhere but sideways. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline cnrcpla

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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2012, 11:55:35 PM »
Quote
EFI is not a step anywhere but sideways.
How so? From what I have been reading it seems like a step forward... But like I said, I will still prefer to work on carbs because I think that they are simpler.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2012, 12:06:36 AM »
Quote
EFI is not a step anywhere but sideways.
How so? From what I have been reading it seems like a step forward... But like I said, I will still prefer to work on carbs because I think that they are simpler.

It's heavier.  Carbs atomize fuel better.  It has it's benefits, but not enough benefits, in my opinion, to re-tool a factory.   The real step forward is in the lubrication department.  That independent firm in Australia that has a patent on their design is doing the right thing.  I wish a smaller manufacturer that uses someone elses engines would give them the contract for their engines.  Or someone else would buy the technology.  I just really do not thing this status-quo two-stroke design is going to make a comeback as it sits. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Jeram

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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 01:51:39 AM »
Quote
EFI is not a step anywhere but sideways.
How so? From what I have been reading it seems like a step forward... But like I said, I will still prefer to work on carbs because I think that they are simpler.

It's heavier.  Carbs atomize fuel better.  It has it's benefits, but not enough benefits, in my opinion, to re-tool a factory.   The real step forward is in the lubrication department.  That independent firm in Australia that has a patent on their design is doing the right thing.  I wish a smaller manufacturer that uses someone elses engines would give them the contract for their engines.  Or someone else would buy the technology.  I just really do not thing this status-quo two-stroke design is going to make a comeback as it sits. 

Dunno what all this talk about being heavier is, its just something that someone said and then everyone repeated blindly.

A throttle body is often more compact and lighter than a Carb of the equivelent size.
The fuel pump and Injection controller box weigh sweet F-ALL
The battery would already be on the bike if it was an E-START bike like most enduro 2T's are now.

This is the throttle body which was going to be put on the TSS500 before things went sour. Looks much lighter than a carb.


No need to re-tool a factory as KTM doesnt make their own carbies, Keihin does... there would be no reason why itd be any different with injectors.

Orbital engineering has done more to hinder progress than help it. Their patents on the technology are stopping manufacturers from producing it themselves unless they pay an astronomical price to licence the technology.

The short term future for injected 2T's is a mixture of transfer port injection (quasi DFI) for fuel economy in the bottom and mid range and then uses secondary injectors in the throttle body for the top end boost.
I believe this is how the OSSA may be set up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2012, 02:02:54 AM »
As posted few other times people who have went with the 4 stroke street bike throttle bodies have had some success with better power and fuel economy. It may not make more peak HP than a "Tuned" 38-40mm carb, but it makes up for it by giving more power everywhere else and by tossing in efficiency/reliability. On my EFI thread I posted a banshee that was equipped with 4 stroke throttle bodies, its pulling 60 miles per tank, with a twin cylinder two stroke quad   :-.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

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« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2012, 02:03:11 AM »
Repeat blindly?

It is FACT that the weight of the MX 4Ts all went up with the advent of EFI, due to the parts involved. Period.  It's no coincidence that the lightest 4T motocrosser is the only carb'd model left.  The YZ250F.  

you can post a throttlebody all day long, but I think you are intelligent enough to know that this is only one part of the EFI system.  Motocross bikes dont have batteries and E-starts.  I'm sorry, but if you don't realize that an EFI system on a motocross bike weighs more than a stock motocross carb, then I can't help you.  keyword being system.  not just the throttlebody.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2012, 02:08:01 AM »
This is correct, but the total weight would be what? 1-8bs? Ohz noez..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2012, 02:10:20 AM »
This is correct, but the total weight would be what? 1-5lbs? Oh noes..

So if i went to the gym, grabbed a 5lb donut weight off the rack, and taped it to your seat, you wouldn't care?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2012, 02:10:39 AM »
Nope.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2012, 02:16:21 AM »
The only thing negative I see with EFI despite the weight, is tuning aspects or the lack of. Everyone who works with EFI are douche bags, and won't take any time to explain anything(Cough, High Gain Tuning). So unless you know what your doing with a laptop, you're screwed. This alone is the main reason people bail off of EFI on cars, either because they're scared to touch anything or had  enough with the BS with shops. I think KTM or Husky could pull it off, but not the big 4. It seems more and more Japanese companies are screwing up of late. Now, if there was something like Easy EFI, it would work great due to the system always adapting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline psychward26

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« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2012, 02:20:06 AM »
I think if EFI adds weight its not a good idea unless there is enough of a hp gain to even it out. The funny thing is they can still use a tweaked 1987 motor and still pump out more hp then the so called more evolved 4ts of the same displacement, handle better, and weigh alot less. Why would so called 2t guys want them to smooth out the power of a 2t? Isnt that why we love them? I think if they could find a way to move peek hp up a couple grand that would make a big difference when racing against 4ts. All i know is if i wanted a bike that had the power delivery of a 4t then i would buy a 4t but i dont.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2012, 02:22:43 AM »
It doesn't necessarily smooth out the power, it simply improves it. There is still that "Hit" with EFI on two strokes as it is still building that pressure in the pipe(sigh).  With EFI it simply helps down low, which even now modern 4 strokes struggle with as they are mainly mid-top. If you were to tune a two stroke motor with efi to run with out a pipe(its doable), yes it would be one giant torque monster with no top end. If you want to look into it more, check evinrude engine torque figures.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!