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Author Topic: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....  (Read 17114 times)

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Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 05:26:52 PM »
Technology wise the Euros have had frame updates, Engine updates (Heads,Porting etc ), Suspension updates etc.
They might not be masive leaps in technology but it all adds up.
You could make the same arguement about 4 strokes as well if you wanted. Apart from EFI what has really changed in 5 years. But a new 4 stroke is a better bike then a 5 year old one.
The other problem lately is the only back to back tests done in magazines is between the KTM & YZ, & most mags don't like the PDS.

As I said while a good bike ( The YZ ) I think Yamaha are taking the piss on charging 2011 prices for a 2006 bike. They are making a killing.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline ford832

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2011, 05:57:00 PM »
Those type of small upgrades are typical of normal model year changes.Granted,Yamaha could likely get another pony or two if they continued development but realistically,any of the 250's have all the power your normal non-pro consumer could handle-and have been that way for the past 10 yrs-that's why for that time,manufacturers skewed the power around but never went after more-just better delivery.As far as suspension improvements go,any of the euros are still chasing 5 yr old yamaha stuff.There's nothing wrong with PDS,KTM just can't build suspension.Their linkage bikes prove it.More accurately,WP can't build suspension.
The YZ engine is certainly at the end of it's cycle so maybe something new is in the pipe-or maybe it will just go away-I'm betting Yamaha has a DI coming.
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline chump6784

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2011, 06:32:26 PM »
agree with Ford. The euro's are only catching up to the YZ now. As far as the KTM engine goes, they come standard with a V3 reed block and there is probably a bit more attention to the ports and pipe from the factory but i dont think it would be hard to make a YZ go like a KTM and you dont have to spend money on valving or springs in the suspension of the YZ.

Apparently the chassis on the ktm is a lot better so if ktm can get the suspension sorted they will have a winner

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2011, 08:25:09 PM »
The point I was trying to make was I would be quite happy to buy an 06" YZ and spend some money on it to rebuild it.
But I would not spend any money on a new one.
For a new bike my money will be going to GG/TM or Husky ( I like their new CR125 which here, comes with a free 150cc Kit ).
Or for the price a RM250.
My beef with Yamaha is charging new prices for an old bike.
You can buy a new RM here for $2500 cheaper then a YZ. :o
That difference gives you alot of spare cash to bling up or Modify a bike which is pretty good as well.

Now if Yamaha released something like this, Well ;D



Yamaha rant over.
Tommorrow HONDA. ;)
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline chump6784

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2011, 10:34:01 PM »
Yeah same deal with rm's over here.2 grand cheaper than yz. If yamaha did make a yz like that they wouldn't sell any four strokes, tis an awesome lookin bike

Offline factoryX

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 11:38:43 PM »
I'd go with any euro bike over a jap bike anyday, the quality difference is astonishing. I just rode a husky cr125 the other day, I almost wished I had picked up one instead of the yz. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 11:40:29 PM by factoryX »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2011, 01:38:31 AM »
Quote
The 2012 ktm 250  puts out about 3-4 horses more than the frozen in 2000  "2012" yz 250
seems more than plastics have been getting updates over the last 12 years,

I'm not arguing. Yamaha has been resting on their laurels. I'd just like to point out though that Yamaha has a heavy double wall pipe. Whereas the Ktoom has an FMF (or somesuch aftermarket). Don't you think that might be good for a couple of ponies?

Sure the Yamaha has dated plastic but how many folks have the stock graphics anyway? With the fixed sytle, there are more options for replacement colors and sticker kits readily available. Companies don't have to "create new" each year because they changed a mounting point.

None of it makes you go faster anyway. I always pealed any sticker that they were not "paying me for"  anyway.

Although now with the vintage stuff, I tire of saying "It's a Can-Am. It's made in Canada. It's fast."
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline MXLord327

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2011, 05:29:32 AM »
I always love the Can-Am rotary engines.  I rode a friend's father's 1980 350 (actually it was only a 273 but they called it a 350) back when it was new.  That had the best engine I have ever ridden for nasty, snotty Northeastern Enduros to this day - kind of like a KDX200 motor on steroids!  Now, the drum brakes, 35mm Marzocci forks and dual Girling shocks were a different story.....

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 08:02:50 AM »
As far as Can Am goes, who knows what is going on at the Valcourt,Quebec factory right now?

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 08:28:56 AM »
Quote
I always love the Can-Am rotary engines...

Me too. I loved my 1980 250 Qualifier and raced several MX's with it and placed top 5. Could have done better with more love though. There was always something I overlooked and needed fixing.

Quote
Now, the drum brakes, 35mm Marzocci forks and dual Girling shocks were a different story...

Eh yeah but all vintage bikes are that way though. Their suspensions and brakes were no worse than anyone elses.

Quote
As far as Can Am goes, who knows what is going on at the Valcourt,Quebec factory right now?

We can only dream...MX7 with rotory, electric start and DI?    8)
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2011, 01:19:09 PM »
As far as Can Am goes, who knows what is going on at the Valcourt,Quebec factory right now?

I was at a BRP conference in Australia 4 years ago and there was hushed talk of a 2 wheeler. :-X
No one would confirm or deny. But I got the feeling something was on.
Then the economy tanked. :(
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline IllusionGrafix

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2011, 05:15:21 PM »
What kinda pipe is that in that YZ with the conversion kit?

Offline ford832

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2011, 05:38:59 PM »
I'd go with any euro bike over a jap bike anyday, the quality difference is astonishing. I just rode a husky cr125 the other day, I almost wished I had picked up one instead of the yz. 

Don't confuse stock equipment with quality.My euros all came with better bars,chains etc than the cheesy ones the japs put on,but the overall quality of the bike wasn't up to japanese.All the euros took fiddling,frigging and a measure of re-engineering to get things as they should of been in the first place.Once done,they were great-but I still had to do it.
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline snook620

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2011, 07:12:08 PM »
My 05 yz was awesome. Ill admit I havent rode any of the newer 2 strokes so I cant say its better. But it was a sweet bike...atleast everywere except a flat corner.
2000 YZ 125 under construction

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2011, 01:13:30 AM »
Don't confuse stock equipment with quality.My euros all came with better bars,chains etc than the cheesy ones the japs put on,but the overall quality of the bike wasn't up to japanese.All the euros took fiddling,frigging and a measure of re-engineering to get things as they should of been in the first place.Once done,they were great-but I still had to do it.

Ohh ford. :(  We must get you into the 21st century. ;)
They have certainly improved over the last 5 years.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough