Two strokes aren't much good in the woods anyway.....

[ford832]

Lol,I doubt it.Euro is,and always has been Euro-and always will be.That's a strength in some ways-and a weakness in others.
Now then,when does the Honda rant start.There's a topic I can sink my teeth into.
As far as getting into the 21st century goes,I find the older I get,the more stuck in the past I become

[VintageBlueSmoke]

...please make the HONDA rant a new thread. I'm sure it'll make 10+ pages!

[miedosoracing]

TeamGreen over at Vital posted some info on the KTM.  I'd bet a done up Yamaha still won't keep up hp wise. He posted that a pipe builder is running 55 hp out of a 2012 KTM 250SX.  That is impressive alone, but added that the bottom end can be made to have torque that compares to the 4 strokers.  I think some of you who have rode old KTM's are trying to compare that to a 06 or newer Yamaha.  It ain't the same bike :-)

[TMKIWI]

Ok this is starting to go around in circles.
To recap.
The reason you see so many orange , Red & White (GG) & blue (Husaberg) in off road races is they are made for that sort of racing. The Japs have droped the ball. (This is where the thread started). Fact.

(Last year Yamaha made Paul Whibley ride a WR450 in the GNCC's and it was such a pig the team had to revert to a YZF mid season). Now most of his competition are on smokers.

The YZ is a great MX machine that can be converted to the woods.
For the last few years the only 250 2/S shootouts that have been done are between the YZ & KTM because that is all the USA gets. As I said some testers have had a love/hate relationship with PDS. Some other countries are lucky that we get a bigger choice.

Now there are not as many 250's around as there was, but there still is quite a few 125's. Since the 125/250's run the same chassis I would love to see a test done between:
TM 125 , SX 125 , YZ 125 , RM 125 , CR 125 ( Husky). If some one has please tell me.
Let the best bike win. At least that will give the punters a fair comparison.

I am glad Yamaha are still selling the YZ but, Stop taking the piss with trying to tell us it is a 2011 model.
At least Suzuki are selling the RM as a 08' and is priced accordingly.
( I read from a reputable source ( His son rides for Yamaha) that the YZ tooling is so worn that the squish can be up to 1mm out, out of the box )

 

...please make the HONDA rant a new thread. I'm sure it'll make 10+ pages!

That ship has sailed.
There was a good one last year.
I was taking the piss.

[ford832]

TeamGreen over at Vital posted some info on the KTM.  I'd bet a done up Yamaha still won't keep up hp wise. He posted that a pipe builder is running 55 hp out of a 2012 KTM 250SX.  That is impressive alone, but added that the bottom end can be made to have torque that compares to the 4 strokers.  I think some of you who have rode old KTM's are trying to compare that to a 06 or newer Yamaha.  It ain't the same bike :-)

The newest I've ridden was a 2010 250XC.I haven't ridden the SX.The XC was impressive and tight but I honestly didn't notice a great deal of difference from any other well tuned 250 I've ridden,regardless of brand.Honestly,I notice suspension deficiencies before I notice power issues,unless it's extreme one way or the other.
 
Admit it TMKIWI,you're just upset that an old design YZ is superior to that silly TM 
As for the tooling thing,it could be but I know production tolerance can be off a fair bit even when it's not old.When I knocked the timing back on the YZ,it was set on the mark but the mark was 1 degree advanced over what the spec was.

[EJ]

I think Yamaha does the same to the YZ's as with their Banshee's.
They have been around for ages now, but without big revolutionairy changes.
It just proves, in my opinion at least, that these were both good designs in the frist place.
And a good product doesn't need many radical changes.

Altho it's a shamefull scandal that they still continue to rise the prices for that same old bike...

It's weird to see how Americans comlain about beeing stuck in the Japanese big OEM dominance regime,
yet they are still very reluctant towards their possible resque ticket,
the new 2 stroke Euro bikes wich they should support en masse to make any kind of statement or change...

[TMKIWI]

It's weird to see how Americans comlain about beeing stuck in the Japanese big OEM dominance regime,
yet they are still very reluctant towards their possible resque ticket,
the new 2 stroke Euro bikes wich they should support en masse to make any kind of statement or change...

Ahmen to that.

[SachsGS]

Ford, look for a milk crate because if you stand on it you should just be able to see out of that Yamaha rut you are in. Now focus your eyes on that Husaberg 2T off in the distance and admit you want one.

[ford832]

Actually,I'd like to have to the Berg.As much as I liked all my Euro's-and I did,whenever I got on my riding buddies Honda's and Yamaha's I always thought-Crap,I wished my suspension worked like that.It's not enough to stop me from buying one,but it bothered me.That said,these days as my riding ability falls away,suspension performance wouldn't be as critical as it once was.
I'd try the milk crate thing but I don't think my knees would bend well enough to get up on it.  

[ford832]

It's weird to see how Americans comlain about beeing stuck in the Japanese big OEM dominance regime,
yet they are still very reluctant towards their possible resque ticket,
the new 2 stroke Euro bikes wich they should support en masse to make any kind of statement or change...

When I bought my Berg,they were priced $3000 more than a Jap bike(I bought a two year leftover and saved 2500)My KTM 125's were 1000-1500 more than a YZ or RM.If you can buy pretty much the same thing cheaper,most will do just that.

[chump6784]

My brother and I had a discussion the other day about the price of ktms and as far as motocross goes the extra money you pay doesn't result in better lap times. We both agreed that while things like hydraulic clutches and brembo brakes are nice they really don't justify the extra price tag. There isn't a lot of difference in price between them and the japs but even $500 is 5 rear tyres.

[EJ]

I thought the KTM's were cheaper than the YZ's in the US?

[chump6784]

I'm in Australia. There is only $500 difference in dealer prices but yamaha will do deals, Ktm not so much

[factoryX]

Look at the pics and tell me that there is not a quality difference between stock Jap bikes and European bikes.

[chump6784]

looking at those photo's the euro's definitely look better but those jap bikes haven't been updated for years, the rm has been that shape since 01.

the euro's carry names like marzocchi but i have never read a review where the yz's forks were beaten, even the rm is as good or better than the rest. the ohlins equipped gg and tm are a step above the japs but as an overall package all the big name products dont seem to make much of a difference.

its kind of like the euro's throw all the top end, exotic parts on but dont necessarily match them together that well where as the japs use what they know and put together a very good all round package.

i am talking motocross here too, for offroad you wouldnt even consider a jap bike, they dont make any

i think that is the biggest difference here is it has taken this many years of the japs being stagnant for the euro's to catch up.