Jody 2-stroke, MXA at it again

[burn1986]

Jody Weisel posted an update to his 2-stroke manifesto. It's definitely a good read, that will ruffle the feathers of 4-strokers for sure:

http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/CALL-TO-ARMS-JODYS-MANIFESTO-OF-AN-UNREPENTANT-TWO-7970.aspx

[MyckMcClung]

Good read, it's practically a word for word quote of what I've been saying for over 10 years.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

You know, not much is said about it but looking at the comparisons between 2 and 4 stroke bikes at MXA and other reports, I think the importance of size is under reported.

If you compare 125cc bikes 2 and 4 stroke, there is no competition. The 2-stroke wins.
If you compare 250cc bikes 2 and 4 stroke, there is no competition. The 2-stroke wins.

But if you compare a 450cc 4-stroke vs a 500cc two-stroke, the thumper is faster.

Now before you flame me, I only have the reports to go on. I have not done personal back to back tests with a modern 450cc 4$ vs. a modern 500cc 2T on a motocross track. My guess is that there is a limit that all that power gets used. Would a 300cc 2T be more competitive? It looks that way for the KTM 4$'s in the GP's.

I agree with Jody that the AMA (and FIM) should open up the rules for equivalency. I'm sure the 450 4$ would still dominate but the return of the 360cc 2T might be a nice alternative.

[miedosoracing]

But if you compare a 450cc 4-stroke vs a 500cc two-stroke, the thumper is faster.

Now before you flame me, I only have the reports to go on. I have not done personal back to back tests with a modern 450cc 4$ vs. a modern 500cc 2T on a motocross track. My guess is that there is a limit that all that power gets used. Would a 300cc 2T be more competitive? It looks that way for the KTM 4$'s in the GP's.

I agree with Jody that the AMA (and FIM) should open up the rules for equivalency. I'm sure the 450 4$ would still dominate but the return of the 360cc 2T might be a nice alternative.

Not flaming you, but all tests of Aluminum framed 500 2 strokes spanked the 450F's, so not sure what you are speaking of. The only test that the 450F won, is when it was against a steel framed 2001 CR500. 

[burn1986]

Yep,

[EJ]

Great article.

Good to see them list most of the current 2 Strokes available for the US, enough smokers to choose from.
Now it's time for the mags to switch to 2 Stroke truth, and do some articles to actually inform the buyers.

More and more people will see the light, and are slowly starting to come out of their shells. . .

The rule-makers and OEM's are beiing flamed more and more, but as I said before,
they will go down fighting and resisting till the last second.

When will this current AMA / OEM dictatorship finally collapse..?

[ford832]

It depends entirely on the track and rider.In most cases a 450 will take the 500.If most find a 450 4t to be too much,how much more so is a 500 2t.Fun and effectiveness are two different things.

[2smoker]

It depends entirely on the track and rider.In most cases a 450 will take the 500.If most find a 450 4t to be too much,how much more so is a 500 2t.Fun and effectiveness are two different things.

yeah right!


CR 500 Braaap!! Long Live 2 Strokes!!

cr500 honda

[TMKIWI]

I agree with ford and Vintage.
Some tracks you will be faster on a 125 then 500.
No different then 250F's are quicker then 450F's on some tracks.
The track down the road is so tight a 125 is quickest. Hell a good kid on a 85 would be quicker again.
In the desert a 125 is a waste of time.
Horses for courses

[burn1986]

Great article.

Good to see them list most of the current 2 Strokes available for the US, enough smokers to choose from.
Now it's time for the mags to switch to 2 Stroke truth, and do some articles to actually inform the buyers.

More and more people will see the light, and are slowly starting to come out of their shells. . .

The rule-makers and OEM's are beiing flamed more and more, but as I said before,
they will go down fighting and resisting till the last second.

When will this current AMA / OEM dictatorship finally collapse..?

Yeah, I liked seeing the bikes too. That was actually the first picture I've seen of the Husaberg 125, and the Gas Gas.

I don't think we will see a collapse of the AMA/ OEM dictatorship any time soon. There are people in the AMA (well, really one person) who will fight to keep the OEMs happy at any cost.

There is always a possibility of a new series springing up, sort of like freestyle and arenacross has.

[citabjockey]

Does that chart apply to two full 45 min motos? Riders of different abilities? Tracks with the emphisis on jumps? woops? really tight turns?  Sure looks revealing however!

Also seems like its easy to make a 500 2T that will bury a 4T in the overall HP department. If you toned down the 2T to the 4T's HP level and a flatter torque curve would you then have a bike that is just as easy to manage and have a 15 lb advantage in the running gear because of the valves/cams/chains/rockers and other nonsense left behind? Maybe better running gear because you could afford aftermarket stuff and tuning because your last rebuild only cost $300 instead of $1200?

Yep,

[factoryX]

Exactly, there's so much hp to begin with, and with a modern chassis(250f) you could technically just putt around the track and be competitive.

[ACMX]

There are a lot of factors that would play into this but I think on the general level the 450 would lose to a cr500. Arenacross may be the only acception

[ford832]

I currently have a YZ250,have ridden other 250's-both 2 and 4t,owned a 550 Berg,ridden other 450's and my own and other people's 125's.
My best lap times on my buddy's practice track have never been with a bike I owned at the time but on friends 250F's.They have also been the least fun I've had on a motorcycle.If results were everything,that's what I'd have.Sad but true.

[602mx]

That just proves you are more comfortable on that particular set-up....Not everyone is the same...Plus it is very difficult to compare lap times on different bikes unless it is the same day,conditions and the rider is equally aggressive on all the bikes....and of course all the bikes are running/handling correctly..