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Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2011, 03:34:49 AM »
Honda still employs all it's 2-stroke engineers. They are too valuable to let go. I won't hold my breath for Darth Honda to produce a new 2-stroke. Not atleast until they are getting spanked in the marketplace when DFI 2-strokes are the norm (or atleast more common). The only hope for 'something different' comes from Yamaha. Their MC division might just be small enough.

And not to worry about your 4T investment. Honda sits on the BoD in both the AMA and FIM. There is little or no chance of a Jedi DFI-2T becoming a regular winner in the pro class. The Evil Empire won't let it.


08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline Suzuki TS250/185

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2011, 04:15:55 AM »
Why would it have to be a DFI 2 stroke. What's so exciting about DFI 2 strokes?

Nothing's exciting about them if you ask me. The 2 stoke line from Husaberg and the KTM150 are way more exciting than some neutered, phseudo 2 stroke with a computer controlled faux power curve.

The real 2 strokes we have now are exciting race machines. I'm not all hyped up to start moving into the boring catagory presently occupied by the fuel injected 4 stroke dirt conveyors being marketed to suckers now in place of motocross bikes....

No thanks hippies... You can keep that gargage!
I think 4 stroke dirtbikes are a phase, kind of like "Glam Rock" in a way. You see the whole world subscribing to it, and you wonder how everyone could be choking down so much Kool Aid and Spam... Then 10 Years later, nothing's left but the timeless stuff from before and after..

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2011, 05:03:16 AM »
Why would it have to be a DFI 2 stroke. What's so exciting about DFI 2 strokes?

Nothing's exciting about them if you ask me. The 2 stoke line from Husaberg and the KTM150 are way more exciting than some neutered, phseudo 2 stroke with a computer controlled faux power curve.

The real 2 strokes we have now are exciting race machines. I'm not all hyped up to start moving into the boring catagory presently occupied by the fuel injected 4 stroke dirt conveyors being marketed to suckers now in place of motocross bikes....

No thanks hippies... You can keep that gargage!
The only reasons why I personally bring up DI is the following:  First, people who switched to 4 strokes, always say they couldn't jet their bikes. Of course, that is on the crappy owner.  But to make things work really well for the general population, make it easy.  So no jetting with that.  Second, emmission bs that I heard over and over, but then talked directly to Whitlock and Janson and both said, had no real bearing. Just hearsay that got pushed. Gee, wonder who started it. 3rd and finally, to make a 2 stroke run smooth all the way up, like a 4 stroke, or make it a fire breathing dragon.  You can adjust DI more.  

That being said, I personally like the carb more.  But I'm a tuner, so I can adjust them and make them run how I want. 
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Offline MyckMcClung

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2011, 05:43:19 AM »
DI would just be a gadget to increase selling price and raise part replacement costs, dealer service frequency, and BS the masses into thinking they cleaned up the emissions on a bike, that when jetted properly, run cleaner than 4 strokes. They have the masses thinking if you can see the exhaust it's bad. Truth be told, the smoke you see from a 2 stroke is simply moisture from the oil, it is too dense to rise into the atmosphere, is only present during warm up, if the bike is jetted properly, and has less Co, than a fourstroke. And get this, if you are using castor or bean oil, is not carcinogenic, it is actually good for the earth, :o.

This is the same type of scapegoating, misrepresentation, bold face lying, and typical Corporate Snow(shit) Storm,  that is responsible for a certain plant ;), that can produce 100s of products such as fuel, oil, paper, plastic, cloth and other textiles, has medicinal properties, makes you feel good, is a bi annually renewable resource, and has been growing naturally on this planet long before our viral asses showed up and started f'n it up.

And it is true,  you can make a 2 stroke run smooth through it's entire range of throttle just like a four stroke. It's called a fly wheel weight.
The reason that the jap manufacturers build them to "hit" in a certain part of throttle range is because they are purpose built for moto x and that is were they should be ridden.
The problem lies in that
1. the majority does not posses the talent or ability to ride in that part of the power.
2. the owner is using said machine for  purpose other than MX or SX
This is where Honda was with it's last run of dueces seeming to be lack luster, knowing that the owner would tune it to thier liking with the abundance of after market products, they built a solid platform for which to start. The yamaha dueces are the same way, smooth power without alot of rip out your arm hits in the power range.
If a pair of 2" brass balls isn't working, I doubt that the 3" model will make much difference.

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2011, 08:34:48 AM »
In theory a DI 2T would inject into the combustion chamber after the exhaust port is closed resulting in less "hit" and a whole lot more low speed torque.If you look at the numbers DI snowmobiles and outboards are producing I'd take a DI 2T dirt bike any day. ;D

Offline MyckMcClung

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2011, 09:14:46 AM »
I'm not saying that DI is a bad thing, simply that it sounds like it's going to be a bigger headache than jetting. With a fuel pump, o2 sensors, tranny sensors. ignition gizmos and what not. I'm happy with just my tool box. FML if I'm going to have to drag a laptop and some crazy assed connector set up too. I'd end up spending all day in the TSM forum instead of actually working on my bike or riding. lmao
If a pair of 2" brass balls isn't working, I doubt that the 3" model will make much difference.

Offline ford832

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2011, 02:37:51 PM »
LOL, for older bikes to. I mean who would waste money on old technology, oh wait, the yz250...oops
Oh no,not the old technology YZ thing again.  :o I guess the TM,Gasgas,husky,KTM etc have all the new 2t technology.I hear the difference is...er....um......  ::)
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline TotalNZ

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2011, 06:53:55 PM »
Why would it have to be a DFI 2 stroke. What's so exciting about DFI 2 strokes?

Nothing's exciting about them if you ask me. The 2 stoke line from Husaberg and the KTM150 are way more exciting than some neutered, phseudo 2 stroke with a computer controlled faux power curve.

The real 2 strokes we have now are exciting race machines. I'm not all hyped up to start moving into the boring catagory presently occupied by the fuel injected 4 stroke dirt conveyors being marketed to suckers now in place of motocross bikes....

No thanks hippies... You can keep that gargage!
exactly! who needs DI. not me i like my carb just fine

Offline factoryX

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2011, 10:54:27 PM »
LOL, for older bikes to. I mean who would waste money on old technology, oh wait, the yz250...oops
Oh no,not the old technology YZ thing again.  :o I guess the TM,Gasgas,husky,KTM etc have all the new 2t technology.I hear the difference is...er....um......  ::)

Well, I just read a comparison between the 250sx and the yz250. Apparently the yz handles better while the KTM rapes it. ;D


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline KXwestYZ

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2011, 05:14:06 AM »
Why would it have to be a DFI 2 stroke. What's so exciting about DFI 2 strokes?

Nothing's exciting about them if you ask me. The 2 stoke line from Husaberg and the KTM150 are way more exciting than some neutered, phseudo 2 stroke with a computer controlled faux power curve.

The real 2 strokes we have now are exciting race machines. I'm not all hyped up to start moving into the boring catagory presently occupied by the fuel injected 4 stroke dirt conveyors being marketed to suckers now in place of motocross bikes....

No thanks hippies... You can keep that gargage!
exactly! who needs DI. not me i like my carb just fine

DITTO!

Offline chump6784

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2011, 03:55:21 AM »
LOL, for older bikes to. I mean who would waste money on old technology, oh wait, the yz250...oops
Oh no,not the old technology YZ thing again.  :o I guess the TM,Gasgas,husky,KTM etc have all the new 2t technology.I hear the difference is...er....um......  ::)

Well, I just read a comparison between the 250sx and the yz250. Apparently the yz handles better while the KTM rapes it. ;D

is this review online somewhere?

with this talk about DI i looked at Orbitals page and in particular the dyno of the injected 450 2 stroke compared to the 450 4 stroke. the 2 stroke blows the 4 stroke out of the water and apparently that was a very under engineered 2 stroke. so that got me wondering whether a DI 2 stroke that is engineered to really perform could produce enough power and torque to give a 450 4 stroke a run for its money? if it could it makes the ama ruling not of capacities not so bad

Offline 2T Institute

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2011, 06:52:27 AM »
In theory a DI 2T would inject into the combustion chamber after the exhaust port is closed resulting in less "hit" and a whole lot more low speed torque.If you look at the numbers DI snowmobiles and outboards are producing I'd take a DI 2T dirt bike any day. ;D

Why would that produce more torque? DI isn't good for part throttle or off pipe applications (which makes it easy to rig up on sleds and eggbeaters) then there is the issue of big end and crank bearing lubrication. Sleds run 'dry' bottom ends with sophisticated oil injection which could never be packaged on a dirt bike.

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2011, 07:03:55 AM »
Carbed 250 2Ts are already producing torque and horsepower figures close to 450 4T$ it's just that the 4T$ are smoother.With DI a 250 2T would match or exceed a 4T and be nearly as smooth.

The achilles heal of the Schnurle loop 2T is that during the scavenging /exhaust cycle part of the fuel/air intake charge is lost out the exhaust port (hence expansion chambers). Direct injection would introduce the fuel mixture into the combustion chamber after the exhaust port is closed (at low rpm anyway) resulting, in my mind,more low speed torque.You could well be right about the present technological limitations but problems were made to be overcome. ;D

Offline monsteryz125

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2011, 09:30:32 AM »
Sorry but im not too too familiar with DI but i was wondering if a 2 stroke was equipped with DI can you keep the "hit" in the torque curve or does it have to be smooth like a 4 stroke?
2000 yz125

Offline ford832

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Re: Rumours,Rumours!
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2011, 02:09:13 PM »
LOL, for older bikes to. I mean who would waste money on old technology, oh wait, the yz250...oops
Oh no,not the old technology YZ thing again.  :o I guess the TM,Gasgas,husky,KTM etc have all the new 2t technology.I hear the difference is...er....um......  ::)

Well, I just read a comparison between the 250sx and the yz250. Apparently the yz handles better while the KTM rapes it. ;D

The exact same thing was true in 03.No technology difference,just different set up-as in all comparisons over the years.A riding buddies 03 250SX was virtually unrideable to a spode like me-and him as well.I could run virtual circles around him and such wasn't typically the case.It had too much,too fast,too hard.In later years they toned it down.It was certainly fun,but not very effective.
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.