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Author Topic: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..  (Read 12141 times)

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Offline bearorso

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2011, 10:21:27 AM »
I am giving KTM the benefit of the doubt.  They are lobbying for the AMA to reduce the four stroke cc limit to 350.  And they aren't just "talking" about it, but they put their money where their mouth is with the 350F. 

It is a longshot, but if their efforts produce a reduction in cc's to 350 across the board, could you think of a better time to drop the Direct Injection 250 two stroke bomb!?!? 


I've not read of KTM lobbying for this,  Anywhere.

Lluongo put up a 350cc limit a few years ago, but for once, the Japanese companies used their power for the better and told him where to go.

The Premier class should be as it was years ago - over 250 (though it might have been over 251/256/290 ,?, I'm not sure) through to a maximum CC limit. I'd have no problem seeing the limit being 450, but I'd like it bigger. Not for 500cc 2ts to return - there is absolutely No Need for that - , mainly so, if a company felt they could produce an ultra light, 2/3 spd. monster 4t (or , I guess, 2t), that was all about torque, and Not revs, as it is now, they could do so. I grew up with a dad into CCMs, and have fond memories of his last one, a 4 valve, 3 spd. 580. I'd love to see a couple of genuine, big boomers out on the track, amongst the rev happy 4ts, and modern 2ts.

The 500 class used to have All sorts of size bikes in it, and all sorts of capacity bikes won races and  the title over the years.

That's what it should return to, a variety, not a mono culture class.

Nor a dumbed down 350cc max class. Our sport has been violated enough.

If KTM were to start pushing for a 350 capacity limit, I think they would deserve all the ill will that would be directed at them.

I believe KTM are doing their thing - catering to as many potential buyers as possible - that's one of their strengths.

Offline burn1986

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2011, 12:50:14 PM »
Good point. The common denominator is everyone is seeing the need for a change. Even the pro riders and mechanics. No one actually likes the way it is now. Something needs to change. One of the other main things is the need for a homologation rule change.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 01:22:30 PM by burn1986 »

Offline eprovenzano

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2011, 12:59:50 PM »
The unfortunate reality right now is that there is absolutely no support for a rider on a 2-stroke. Until the AMA rule change there probably won't be much support for pro racers (even though everyone wants to see it).

That may be the tuffest one to change.  All the MFG's want to keep out the competiton...  Imagine if a GasGas Husky or God forbid a Maico wins....   :o
Eric Provenzano
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Offline burn1986

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2011, 01:25:43 PM »
2-stroke racers will just have to get creative with sponsors. How much attention do you think a 2-stroke racer would get for a sponsor? How much attention was Cedric Soub getting? A WHOLE bunch! The chanllenge is convincing an outside sponsor. I guarantee you that a Nike sponsored KTM 250SX or YZ250 campaining the SX series would have a crazy amount of interviews, fans and attention.

Offline Shawn36

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2011, 07:21:45 PM »
Exactly, KTM is putting spotlight on the 2 strokes.
Did you guys forget about the interview I did with Mike Sleeter, he will be on a 250SX in a few nationals..
Just have patience, the 2 stroke will be back.

Nothing against Mike Sleeter because he's a good rider, but last time he tried to qualify for nationals on a 2-stroke he didn't make the 40 man gate.  The class didn't get any slower or thinner.  I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing him out there. 

Offline Charles Owens

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2011, 07:24:59 PM »
It would be great if he made a main, but thats not why I'm excited about it.
He said KTM is putting him in the races on an SX.. Not by his choice.
When was the last time a manufacturer PUT a 2 stroke in a national?
Progress. :)

Offline monsteryz125

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2011, 07:49:20 PM »
i think i missed that and id love to read it can you please post the link?
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Offline snook620

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2011, 08:06:43 PM »
Mike Sleeter isnt no slouch. It may be a long shot but he has a chance.

I know some local A riders who have made nationals.
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Offline bearorso

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2011, 06:53:17 AM »
2-stroke racers will just have to get creative with sponsors. How much attention do you think a 2-stroke racer would get for a sponsor? How much attention was Cedric Soub getting? A WHOLE bunch! The chanllenge is convincing an outside sponsor. I guarantee you that a Nike sponsored KTM 250SX or YZ250 campaining the SX series would have a crazy amount of interviews, fans and attention.

Getting creative - You're right on that Burner!

Once again, ad nausea, KTM really seemed to not get the amount of exposure CS got for them - It would have been a bare drop in the ocean of Red Bull money they have on tap to keep him out there on a 2t - they could make an absolute monster of a motor for him, with (and with No disrespect to CS), No danger of him overshadowing Cairoli or Nagl etc - he's just not at their level, in his riding ( I hope he progress's) yet.

DV Obviously saw the great exposure Moto Concepts would get from him being out there - once again, no disrespect to their 2 other SX riders out there on  4ts, but, if he hadn't got hurt, had got into mains, and stayed healthy, they / he would have received exposure that would have been wildly disproportionate to the cost of the campaign.

Perhaps CS was a victim of just disappearing into the background of the massive, all up, New effort, put into KTMs stepping it up in the US, and their continued efforts to totally dominate the GPs. No Other Factory has more commitment to racing on dirt than KTM have nowadays , and KTM have the massive financial backing of their compatriot company , Red Bull, who,  would regard the vast (comparatively, in MC racing circles) amount of money they can contribute to KTMs racing, as but the tiniest amount in their overall advertising budget.

Something to keep in mind - Mike Sleeter, from what I've gathered, Is one of KTMs main US development team members, together with Casey Lytle. We should be encouraging KTM, through this website - don't slag the man when he doesn't qualify for nationals. I read in an interview with him (forget which site / mag, it was mentioned in another one, other than here, I think) that good, new things would be coming for 2ts in the 2012 model year. Together with the impending Euro 4 legislation , this Might be the start of the new KTM 2ts we've been hearing of for the last few, interminable, years.

Mind you, I just saw pictures of Knighters new 535 (that's the speculation of what it may be called) that he's using in EWC this year. It has a new engine, without a doubt, plus chassis, so they may have just pissed another massive amount of money up against the wall on their 4ts (so that brings the count of just dirt specific 4t engine modules released by them , to 8 over the last decade [including the 2 different Berg engine modules - the one piece case / barrel one, and the sloper]. Not to forget all the road bikes, and that car. All whilst they've milked the  2, 2t modules - 125/200 and 250 / 300, that can take 380 cranks/ barrels etc still, despite the slight changes they have made - for all they're worth.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 06:57:09 AM by bearorso »

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2011, 10:51:26 PM »
The ktm 350,s handling is crap, my pal who ownes a KTM dealership had one of those ktm crashes, where he didn,t know how it happened, a weird swamp on a landing. He raced nationals so he knows how to ride, it costed him a bunch in surgeries. Who carres about the prema Dona pro,s anyway. We need our own 2-st. series,start concentrating on our thing instead of trying to change corporite minds.

Offline eprovenzano

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2011, 04:41:26 AM »
KTM has a huge investment in the 350.  From what I've read, to get the most out of the 350, it needs to be ridden like a 250 two stroke...  imagine that...  Cédric as we all know, knows how to get the most out of a smoker.  He may be the one to put the 350 in a good light...  I wish him well...
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2011, 05:56:37 AM »
The only thing that really comes to mind in this whole discussion, is that Cedric was doing good on a 2 stroke, and asap he will be riding a 4 stroke.  He had said he would be on a 4 stroke for outdoors, but we will have to see on the indoors.  He won't do any better than podiums and 1st's on a 350F in Supercross, so I see no reason he would have to change over, other than OEM's power.  JMHO. KTM has my support, but if he rides a 4 stroke in Supercross, I may lose it. Because if he would have been on a full factory 2 stroke in supercross, he might have more 1st's on his shelf. He was on a privateer teams bike.  As soon as he does good, time to switch?
www.miedosoracing.com
Fightin the system like a 2 stroke modern day Robin Hood!

Offline bearorso

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2011, 05:11:17 AM »
  As soon as he does good, time to switch?

Unfortunately, Yes.

They Need to push, and sell, 4 strokes. They've put so much money into them, they need to recoup the investment

They have no trouble selling the existing 2 strokes they make. They still sell them,easily, despite the minuscule amount of development money put into them.

It's incredibly simple really - not that I like it one little bit. The factories have backed themselves into a corner, that will take a bit of imagination / lateral thinking , to get out of.

Offline EJ

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2011, 11:40:40 AM »
I think your last 2 scentences have summed it up.