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Offline 2smoker

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Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« on: March 01, 2011, 11:00:46 AM »
Racing 4 junk this year in Germany. KTM 350.  :-[  But Back in October on U.S. sole for Supercross on a 250cc two stroke Yami or KTM.!!!!!!
http://www.motoverte.com/site/des-news-de-cedric-soubeyras-58170.html
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:02:40 AM by 2smoker »
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Offline snook620

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 11:20:00 AM »
I completely agree....the KTM350 is junk.
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Offline burn1986

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 11:35:27 AM »
Man, KTM should be ashamed of themselves!

Offline monsteryz125

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 12:03:02 PM »
is he gonna be back for a full season or just a few races? Either way in 2012 between TSM and Cedric theyll be some 2strokes in the mains
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Offline sinned

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 12:12:17 PM »
 :P let's, some smokers'll be competing next year, my bro inlaw races oldtimers and has swithed to the KTM SX250 this year, he's been on 450 thumpers for a long time. He actuallyt said he was getting bored riding the 450's, dump'r into 3rd and ride it like you stole it.....with the SX250 he'll up and down the gears like a yoyo = fun.... :P

Offline meger z

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 03:46:28 PM »
Racing 4 junk this year in Germany. KTM 350.  :-[  But Back in October on U.S. sole for Supercross on a 250cc two stroke Yami or KTM.!!!!!!
http://www.motoverte.com/site/des-news-de-cedric-soubeyras-58170.html
its his loss, he will melt away in to the 4 stroke also rans.

Offline SwapperMX

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 11:52:59 PM »
is he gonna be back for a full season or just a few races? Either way in 2012 between TSM and Cedric theyll be some 2strokes in the mains

At the moment, I aint holding my breath. Things seem to be dwindling for two strokes at the top level, rather than rapidly improving. I do hope that we see that change, but at the moment, it doesn't look like it. Here in Australia, even now you can race a 250 two stroke in the lites class, it doesn't look like we will have any top riders on two strokes for the nationals. That is disappointing. Even now at the amateur level, the rules allow equal displacement, and the last club day I did a couple of weeks ago, still only had a couple of two strokes on the gate, and the start gate was a full 40 man field. I hope that the two stroke numbers increase over the course of this year, especially at the top level in the USA !!
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Offline ACMX

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 12:35:20 AM »
Pessimism will not get anyone very far... You can say you're being 'realistic' but the truth is that two stroke really are coming back.. I mean look around... Check out youtube.. Read some comments. Check out any two stroke video. Two strokes are kicking ass. The only reason that junk is still around is because of the factories. Seriously, they tried and tried to get two strokes out but to no avail. Some even totally stopped two stroke production. But they are still around and gaining ground. What does that mean to you? To me it says a lot. I don't know how to put this the way I feel exactly, but you just can't purge something that is simply better than what you are trying to replace it with. Even if it makes you more money, you will never totally purge it. We may be a dumb society as a whole but as long as there are a few logical ones out there who have voices, we can make a difference.
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Offline SwapperMX

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 01:14:17 AM »
Pessimism will not get anyone very far... You can say you're being 'realistic' but the truth is that two stroke really are coming back.. I mean look around... Check out youtube.. Read some comments. Check out any two stroke video. Two strokes are kicking ass. The only reason that junk is still around is because of the factories. Seriously, they tried and tried to get two strokes out but to no avail. Some even totally stopped two stroke production. But they are still around and gaining ground. What does that mean to you? To me it says a lot. I don't know how to put this the way I feel exactly, but you just can't purge something that is simply better than what you are trying to replace it with. Even if it makes you more money, you will never totally purge it. We may be a dumb society as a whole but as long as there are a few logical ones out there who have voices, we can make a difference.
Hey bud, if you are directly replying to my post, I am just stating how things are here in Australia at the start of this year. I am as two stroke die hard as anyone, probably more, I work in the industry, I have been involved in this website for a long time, since the two stroke mulisha days, and was looking forward to seeing a lot of two strokes on the line at the races with the rule changes here in Aus. At the moment, it hasn't been as good as I thought it would have been. So no pessimism here, just simply stating facts. And I definitely hope to see two strokes on the line of the AMA nationals this year. This is where the biggest impact can be made. Just need to have the right rider on the right bike.
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Offline EJ

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2011, 07:28:21 AM »
As long as the top teams in the biggest events don't put one of their riders on a 2 stroke,
nothing will radically change.
It's nice to see 2 strokes in front, at all the events wich don't get tv media attention.
But most people don't get to see this. They only broadcast pro sx and nationals!
Hardly nobody in the mainstream crowd at pro races knows these riders, or events.
Why doesn't Mitch Payton build 1 really trick 2 stroke for one of his Pro Circuit riders?
Or KTM put 1 rider on a 2 stroke...
I think it's because it's in the contracts of the pro teams to use 4 strokes.
You could use a 2 stroke according to the racing rules, but the big contracts say something else...

Offline bearorso

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2011, 07:48:04 AM »
Pessimism will not get anyone very far... You can say you're being 'realistic' but the truth is that two stroke really are coming back.. I mean look around... Check out youtube.. Read some comments. Check out any two stroke video. Two strokes are kicking ass. The only reason that junk is still around is because of the factories. Seriously, they tried and tried to get two strokes out but to no avail. Some even totally stopped two stroke production. But they are still around and gaining ground. What does that mean to you? To me it says a lot. I don't know how to put this the way I feel exactly, but you just can't purge something that is simply better than what you are trying to replace it with. Even if it makes you more money, you will never totally purge it. We may be a dumb society as a whole but as long as there are a few logical ones out there who have voices, we can make a difference.
Hey bud, if you are directly replying to my post, I am just stating how things are here in Australia at the start of this year. I am as two stroke die hard as anyone, probably more, I work in the industry, I have been involved in this website for a long time, since the two stroke mulisha days, and was looking forward to seeing a lot of two strokes on the line at the races with the rule changes here in Aus. At the moment, it hasn't been as good as I thought it would have been. So no pessimism here, just simply stating facts. And I definitely hope to see two strokes on the line of the AMA nationals this year. This is where the biggest impact can be made. Just need to have the right rider on the right bike.


Yes, you're dead right - Your're just stating the facts, as they are.

And you're dead right about the need for 2ts to be  in the premier series (in Europe and) the States, to get a quicker uptake of 2ts. It would take equivalency at those levels to allow a rider on a 2t to be going into battle armed for the job. Until then, the bigger 4ts rule the roost

Most younger blokes, who are the racers in our major series here, have little experience on bigger 2ts, and much of that will be when they've gone up against the bigger 4ts - not a great way to be convinced, as a rider, of the viability of racing a 2t. I did a few months at one of OZ's suspension 'experts' (what a joke that is -), and the young apprentice there was whining about  /  dreading the coming rebuild of his 250f - I said, "lets go out and get the same manufacturers 2t engine, and I'll put it into your chassis" - he looked at me as if I was an axe murderer, so convinced he was of the superiority of his 4t engine. Thicker than 2 short planks, I kid you not.  He is the sort of young, competent (from what I gathered) rider, who makes up the field at racing, with no chance of the big deal, but with enough contacts in the industry to easily subsidize his racing, no matter if he's on a 4t or 2t. And the attitude he showed is another,  big part of the lack of 2ts out there.

 Sponsors , the industry, is geared for 4ts. To get a good deal, through a shop, on a bike, the shop , if it's lucky, can get a 'race support price' from a distributor, to help the rider and give the shops a 'Team'. The shops really only have 4ts to sell and promote, just like the distributors. KTM and Yamaha, are the only , real quantity sellers of 2ts, and they sell whatever they can get.

Whilst our MC market has had Nothing like the downturn the US, and other markets have had, the manufacturers are churning out current 4ts, having a lot languishing in storage, so they sure as hell have little incentive to push 2ts, be they current models (if they have any) or make new 2ts that we are so desperate for.

So the shop support riders - the majority of riders out there in our racing in OZ, plus the bigger teams, have 4ts to ride - that's how it is. I wish KTM would have at least one rider on a 250SX, but, they need to sell the 4ts. I wish Yamaha would do so too, but it's the same scenario.

The Big Hope I have, is that the coming in of the Euro4 stds in 2012, will finally bring us the much hoped for modern 2ts - but, I admit, I haven't chased up the Euro 4 rules to see if they are harsher than the current Euro3 rules are, which KTM and others, currently pass quite easily with their 2ts. 2ts are coming back, but much moreso in off road. DFI, AST, AR, whatever tech that a manufacturer chooses to keep 2ts as being able to be legally sold, for road use - which is very important in many markets - will benefit all riders. And things, that "hard man" 2t die hards might scorn , like electric start, And oil injection, are the sort of thing that will get people on 2ts. It's not just the capacity advantages the 4ts have that gave them the edge, it the magic button that really got so many off roaders on 4ts - no longer needing to become one of the people who knew how to start a hot 4t in the bush, opened the market for 4ts dramatically.

I have a bit of a different outlook on the lack of 2t "dominance" in racing, where equivalency has been granted.

Far from the destruction of the dominant 4ts, it's made little difference (if only because of lack of numbers).

This Is A Good Thing.

 It makes those that say the 4ts would be wiped out in racing look disingenuous, if not stupid, so undermines the supposed need to retain the capacity advantages. As I said, a good thing. Show irrefutable evidence that equivalency is not the end of the world, and it makes it harder to justify retaining such stupid rules.

I for one, am rather glad we haven't seen a sudden blitzing of the 4ts, when we've got equivalency - it gives us a realistic chance of it being granted, sooner, rather than later, at the higher levels of the sport - the levels that influences buyers (especially new riders), and therefore, manufacturers to produce what the buyers want.

As for Cedric - he's a young, talented racer, who is trying to make a living from racing. He has to take the best deal he can get, and it's currently inevitable that it will mean he rides a 4t. KTM seriously lost the plot there, as he got an inordinate amount of exposure for them. But there's the rub - exposure for a bike they make less of, whose sale takes away sales from the 4ts they have put so much money into. It's not hard to see why he's on a KTM350. I assume, still with Sarholtz?

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2011, 08:26:09 AM »
While the 4T engine retains it's iron clad grip on the upper echelons of MX 2ts have won a number of offroad events overall both in the U.S. and Europe in the last short while so it's not all doom and gloom.As well,a number of members overseas and in N.A. have reported substantially increased 2T participation at club levels so change is in the air.

Last night I was viewing the classifieds - 06 Husky TC510 $3000 and every similar KTM 300 was $800 to a grand more,used 4Ts aren't moving anymore.

Offline snook620

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2011, 08:32:56 AM »
I definitely hope to see two strokes on the line of the AMA nationals this year. This is where the biggest impact can be made. Just need to have the right rider on the right bike.

I hate to pee in anyones cheerios but your not going to see any 2t on any line at any Pro Nationals this year in the US. They could put Dungey out there and he would still get thrown out the door. The motorcycle simply isnt competitive at that level anymore. Sad but true.

Supercross is the best chance to see a 2t in pro racing and even then I think the only ones your going to see will be doing backflips. As Ive said many times on here, 2 strokes are done racing motocross at the professional level in the US.....atleast for now.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 08:34:35 AM by snook620 »
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Offline Micahdogg

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 09:09:53 AM »
I am giving KTM the benefit of the doubt.  They are lobbying for the AMA to reduce the four stroke cc limit to 350.  And they aren't just "talking" about it, but they put their money where their mouth is with the 350F. 

It is a longshot, but if their efforts produce a reduction in cc's to 350 across the board, could you think of a better time to drop the Direct Injection 250 two stroke bomb!?!? 
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Offline Charles Owens

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Re: Cédric Soubeyras.. Done with 2 stroke..
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2011, 09:14:30 AM »
Exactly, KTM is putting spotlight on the 2 strokes.
Did you guys forget about the interview I did with Mike Sleeter, he will be on a 250SX in a few nationals..
Just have patience, the 2 stroke will be back.