Rampant Negativity and Two Stroke Motocross...

[JohnN]

To be totally honest I am shocked by the attitudes and behavior of some of the folks on here.

The main site has been a very positive influence on the sport and has helped many people to consider two strokes over the four-strokes. This has always been doe in an upbeat and positive manner, with the utmost respect for all people and their opinions.

This forum is now riddled with so much negativity, I'm concerned that this will have an extremely negative influence on all who visit. This is totally and completely unacceptable.

Yes it's true, it's easy to look at the horrors and terrible things in life, in fact that attitude has as much to do with the current state of affairs in the world... the negativity, doom and gloom propagated by not only the mass media but many of the people as well.

This is no way for any one to make real lasting changes in this world. To make changes you have to offer solutions, ideas and hope to all those around you, this is the mark of a true leader.

Cynicism and hate will only create more cynicism and hate.

So what will we have?? Workable solutions to the problems we are experiencing? Or just another place to bitch about the worlds problems??

I'm telling you right now, if it's the later this forum will disappear in a heartbeat. I refuse to pay for the cyber space to add to the crap of the world.

The world and it's people are wonderful in so many ways, if you don't see it, maybe it's your attitude towards the world. We reap what we sow. What are you sowing??

[Recovered]

IMO the electric motorcycle thread should be taken off the site so visitors don't see it. Let's keep this site for the advancement of two stroke motorcycles.

[JohnN]

That is exactly the attitude that I was talking about.

Your post about the Electric bike post is exactly along the lines of what this post started out as. You along with many others have totally missed the point of the thread, which was started by me. This post has gone from a thought, an idea, a possibility for something interesting. A conversation starter.

The answers that you could post, if you disagree are simple, either say nothing, the post dies and we all move on. Or you write a post stating whether you agree or dis-agree, it's really that simple.

This must be a subject that people are passionate about, because it has turned into a discussion about everything from pollution, country bashing, slander, mis-information all the way to personal attacks.

Yes this site is devoted to two-strokes and has been since the very beginning. But if you read through any thread in any forum on the internet, that's about two-strokes you will find one constant, that very few agree on how to get the two-stroke back into the mainstream....

The goal of this forum was to build momentum, good will and with a little luck a consensus to build upon to further the cause.

I will start deleting posts when I have some time, which I'm sure might upset some... For those posts have some redeeming qualities, I will edit them to remove the fight starters. I will start with the electric bike thread.....

[JETZcorp]

I don't know precisely how much editing and deleting you're going to be doing, but if it's at all possible, I'd rather like to see a PM sent out to the poster, informing them that their post has been edited/deleted and in what way.  This would allow us to adjust our posting style to avoid the personal embarrassment of having Big Brother ripping our thoughts from the bulletin board.  I've always thought that ridicule in some form is the best way to know whether you're doing something ridiculous.  This system would allow us to know whether we're being ridiculous.

[JohnN]

JETZcorp, you bring up a very good point... I will attempt to do that.

Earlier I was seeing red... I may have over reacted in some ways, but chezz whiz this is just a forum about dirt bikes!!

Hopefully we can move forward without any further drama and have some fun!!

Although this is one thread I'd love to delete...

[TotalNZ]

Geez i thought this was an open forum where anyone could express their views, Talk of mods deleting posts cause they think they might be inflammatory is BS.
Of course some people are going to express views that you might think are negative but thats their prerogative. If you don't like or agree with what someones said shoot them down with a reply not delete their post, isn't that the sort of behaviour your bagging the AMA for?

[JETZcorp]

I can see where John's coming from.  I see nothing wrong with a heated discussion when it's actually going somewhere.  However, when it turns into a bunch of repetition of the same old gibberish, and you start to get name-calling, holier-than-thou attitudes, and all that stuff, it's time to intervene.  I don't think the goal is to censor dissent or out-there opinions, but rather to eliminate what I call "general [automatically censored]."

Cough.

[TotalNZ]

I can see where John's coming from.  I see nothing wrong with a heated discussion when it's actually going somewhere.  However, when it turns into a bunch of repetition of the same old gibberish, and you start to get name-calling, holier-than-thou attitudes, and all that stuff, it's time to intervene.  I don't think the goal is to censor dissent or out-there opinions, but rather to eliminate what I call "general [automatically censored]."

Cough.

I've never seen a forum without gibberish, name calling and holier than thou attitudes. It's part in parcel with any public forum. People can make their own opinions on individuals and their post's, on an uncensored forum at least you know who the dickheads are by the crap they post.

[Hondacrrider]

I think what john is saying is that we need to respect each other, while being able to disagree. So far, I haven't seen anything too outrageous. I mean compared to other forums, this place is amazing, I mean, we are(in my opinion) more intelligent posters than any other forum I have seen. That being said, there have been some times where i thought the comments were a bit borderline. Is it possible to disagree and argue with them at the same time be nice to them and treat them as your friend, it sure is possible. For me, because I am so young, a lot of you guys are my role models, whether you know it or not, so, your opinion on a bike, person, place, etc... will be processed in my brain and I will think of it whenever that subject comes up. So, remember, that it is not only middle aged men on here, that there are younger readers, and that what you post on here does reflect who you are in real life.

[JohnN]

Geez i thought this was an open forum where anyone could express their views, Talk of mods deleting posts cause they think they might be inflammatory is BS.
Of course some people are going to express views that you might think are negative but thats their prerogative. If you don't like or agree with what someones said shoot them down with a reply not delete their post, isn't that the sort of behaviour your bagging the AMA for?

TotalNZ - You are correct this is an "open" forum where you are free to discuss your views, about two stroke motocross bikes. This is clearly stated in the Message Board Rules, which are extremely minimal when compared to any other forum that I know of. They can be read here,
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/index.php/topic,2.0.html

What happened to spark this slash and edit fest was a few people telling me via this board and e-mail that I should delete a post that they did not think forwarded the ideas of this site. I disagreed with them and the thread began to spiral out of control.

You can see the posts that I edited by the tell tale little blurb at the bottom of a post, if you see something that looks like this, I've edited it.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:44:34 AM by John Nicholas »

Mostly you will see this on the bottom of my own posts, why? Because sometimes I type so fast that I make spelling errors and miss them when I proof read the post before hitting the post button.

Back to your post... I have absolutely NO problem with anyone expressing differing thoughts, in fact I welcome it! I know for a fact that I don't know everything and I'm open to listening to those with differing ideas and opinions. I may or may not agree or adopt this new information, but that is my choice. And that is the opportunity I desire for every visitor of this site.

As to your other post,

I've never seen a forum without gibberish, name calling and holier than thou attitudes. It's part in parcel with any public forum. People can make their own opinions on individuals and their post's, on an uncensored forum at least you know who the dickheads are by the crap they post.

Call me crazy or a dreamer, but I think that this place can be different. If that kind of stuff is your cup of tea, there are so many places where you can go to be with like-minded people. This would not be the place for you. My stated goal is to make this a fun, knowledgeable and respectful place where someone can talk about two-strokes. Ideas, thoughts and yes even disagreements are welcome.

Unlike other forums I ask that you just don't dismiss what someone else has said with one sentence and calling them names. Be a decent human being and write why you disagree. You just may teach them something new. Just realize that if there mind is made up and it's closed, there is nothing you can do to change it. My suggestion there is simple, don't respond to those posts.

Hondacrrider - Your post makes me feel proud to be a human being. Even though you are a younger than some of us on this board, you understand respect for others and are open to learning something new. I'm very glad that you are a part of this forum.

I absolutely love the very last line of your post... "What you post on here does reflect who you are in real life." You may be yound but you are extremely wise.

I do hope that I've clarified that. If you have further questions please feel free to post them here, PM or e-mail me. I'll be happy to discuss this more if you'd like.

[TotalNZ]

No worry's John, it's crystal clear. Sorry if i overreacted, i'm just not a big fan of censorship at all.
Too many people try and tell you what you can and can't do these days.

[JohnN]

I don't think that you overreacted, if I hadn't read the posts that were removed I would have probably felt the same way. I totally agree about censorship, it's not the best way to go and would never be my first choice under most any circumstances.

Thank you for understanding.

[JETZcorp]

I still say the automatic censor thing has to go, though.  There's nothing inherently wrong with some words compared to others; it's just how they're used.  Getting rid of a malicious word won't get rid of malice, and I think that's something a lot of people miss.

But maybe I'm just being my crazy libertarian self a bit too much.

[JohnN]

I still say the automatic censor thing has to go, though.  There's nothing inherently wrong with some words compared to others; it's just how they're used.  Getting rid of a malicious word won't get rid of malice, and I think that's something a lot of people miss.

But maybe I'm just being my crazy libertarian self a bit too much.

This was done at the beginning in an attempt to prevent serious fights between people, but I admit that it's not the best way to deal with anything. I have taken your advise and removed the automatic words censoring altogether. I had pared them back recently, but now they have been totally removed.

Believe me, I had good intentions when I implemented this feature. In fact I was trying to do it with a bit of humor, but it turned out to be a failed experiment. To be honest it didn't fit my view of the world at all.

There I feel so much better!! 

[MMS]

To be honest it didn't fit my view of the world at all.

That's good, personally I panic when I think that I might be starting to "fit in".