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Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2010, 07:22:42 PM »
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The same KX500 that dynoed at 48.8 was dynoed again a few years back and put out over 62HP. It's all hype.

Ya, there are several methods of measuring, I have heard from someone who does dynos that he's never seen a bike go above 50 on a dyno.

I will try to find that email.
Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2010, 07:32:11 PM »
Here is a snipet of the email, there is much more.  But like I said, no bike has made 50 HP according to this guy, not even the new 250s.

Quote

If you subtraced 10 hp or 02% you would be in the ball park. I owna dyno and have run hundrecs of moto bikes over the years and NONE are even close to those numbers. My dyno is calibrated to +-2%. If you have a duno chart with calibration data I would love to see it. I posted a pretty complete chart thru 1980 and workin g on new stuff. The last KTM 250 we ran made 43 or 44hp. You are correct the KTM is very strong on the dyno, one of the best, but not 50hp.

--- On Fri, 1/2/09,  wrote:
Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 3:25 PM
The CR, KX and MX all made a bit over 60HP on a dyno. I recall
the KTM having the most at around 64 or something.
The KTM 250 where the first 250 to break the 50 HP barrier
a few years back on the dyno for the DirtBike magazine.
They all make between 47-50 HP. I'd guess that the Maico 500
is right in there somewhere. 60+ something like any
1987 500cc.




Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2010, 07:37:38 PM »
Here is some more of it, and I'm not either guy in this email (but I started this thread actually).  I should ask if he has dyno information on the newer 250s he can provide.


Quote
Well
Here all I can tell  you is that you can make a dyno chart read anything you want and if it makes you fell better thinking that a 250 makes the same or more power than a 450, so be it. Even though there is no way ANY 250 can Begin to compete with a 450, and on the same note if you want to believe the ads that some moto bikes are making 60 plus HP that's fine. If the KTM 500 was so great why did they stop making it! Just think of they money they could have saved in development costs and they would still rule the motocross world today. I'm telling you I have spent 10's of thousands of dollars on an engineering degree, a dyno, a shop so that I can actually test engine development. And the claims all manufactures make are simply over stated, period. I don't care to discuss this any further. I will post, my complete house power chart developed over the last 25 years by my father, Mr Donahue and myself. If you find the info helpful that's great, that's why I did it. If not that's OK also. On a side note Rodger Decoster told me at dealer meeting once that the best lap times are done a bike with 30 to 35 hp and nice wide power band, now that was 10 years ago and maybe with better suspension that number would be slightly higher. But if you think there is any advantage for the average guy having 60 hp, I know a 9 years old that has less than 20hp in his ride that will change your mind. Again if any of you have dyno charts from a CALIBRATED dyno I would be glad to include that info in my spread sheet.

--- On Sat, 1/3/09 wrote:
Increase

Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 1:44 PM
Well, can't do much except pointing you towards the
motocrossactionmag. com then. It was the KTM 250 SX yearmodel 2002
stock that produced 49 dot something on the dyno during quite a hot
day and it was obvious that it would have broken the 50 HP if the air
temp would have been anything but tropical that day. I can't recall
any rear wheel dyno figures published in any magazine from 2002 and
later with any of the 250:s producing such low figures as you claim.
Normally they are all right there around 47 HP:s.
2005 dyno chart:
http://image. dirtrider. com/f/8958723/ 141_0509_ 250shoot_ 18_z.gif




« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 07:44:52 PM by opfermanmotors »
Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2010, 07:42:06 PM »
BTW, since this is offtopic, should this be split into a Dyno thread?
Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline offroader

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2010, 07:50:37 PM »
The best dyno is seat of the pants and lap times.jmho Ok back on topic.

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2010, 08:43:40 PM »
The best dyno is seat of the pants and lap times.jmho Ok back on topic.

I think that would be a good idea.
Anyone with some figures, put them up.
All bikes. Old & New
 
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline maicoman009

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2010, 09:59:18 AM »
The best dyno is seat of the pants and lap times.jmho Ok back on topic.
I definetly agree with that offroader! And I never agree with the dealer brochures.

Offline GlennC

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2010, 10:54:57 AM »
I was going to dyno my service honda after my next topend. I guess it would be a waste of money, the numbers don't seem to mean anything.

Offline Turquine

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2010, 03:06:46 PM »
I remember back in those days, Cycle Guide always had weird dyno numbers. They were always lower than the other magazines. In those days I only trusted the dyno tests done on the Webco dyno. Even the Webco dynos seem to give much lower figure than the modern dynos do, however. Need to test each bike on the same kind of dyno under the same approximate conditions, to get an accurate gauge of how they stack up against each other. As I said, in those days, I only trusted the Webco figures. Whatever Cycle Guide used, I don't know, but I ignored their figures and just read the tests. On the Webco dynos, the '84 & '85 Honda CR500s for instance, put out just a hair under 50 hp. These new dynos have the KTM 250 putting out that much. Get real, those old CR 500s would run off and leave a KTM 250 in any drag race, or super steep, sandy, hill climb which would bog a 250, and they would do it easily. They would do the same with any modern 450 4stroke as well. If you're gonna use dyno figures, need to make sure each machine is tested on the same dyno. The KTM 250 is nowhere near as powerful as an old CR 500, or Maico 490. Let's get real. Shoot, I'd bet money my old '82 IT 465 enduro would smoke any "stock" modern 250 through the gears, and it was no match for the CR 500s where traction was available. Just the suggestion that due to the dyno figures, a modern KTM 250 is anywhere near as powerful as an early '80s CR 500 is laughable. I mean no insult here, pound for pound, or rather, cc per cc, the KTM is a far superior bike, but it has nowhere near the power of those old CRs, nor do the 4stroke 450s.

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2010, 04:30:43 PM »
What people forget in the horsepower "Debate" is TORQUE.
That determines acceleration. Not horsepower.
A 500 smoker has way more torque then a 250 regardless of what the quoted "horsepower" is. ;D
The modern 250's have about 29ft/lbs of torque. Just a couple below a 450F.
Not sure what an old CR500 has but, it would be a hell of alot more.
I wish manufactors published torque figure instead of horsepower figures.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline ford832

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2010, 05:06:18 PM »
Alright,alright,enough already,I give up.Old bikes are just a fast as new ones,dynos are nothing but a hokey sales tool invented by manufacturers to sell their machinery,a 3.8l chev engine is every bit a fast as a 3.8l F1 engine,etc,etc.
On a side note,I wanted to put my meter on a car today,then the scanner as well but as I knew for a fact that any info would be inaccurate,I just did a "laying of hands",a "mind meld" and got a good "feel" for what I thought might be wrong with it-and then went with my gut instinct.Yeah,baby,now we're getting somewhere. :o

Glenn C- When you are ready to do your top end get it dyno'd.Then run it through a few heat cycles and break it in and get it dyno'd again and post your results.I'd be interested-and fully believe your figures-as should anyone sensible.
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2010, 06:49:10 PM »
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Glenn C- When you are ready to do your top end get it dyno'd.Then run it through a few heat cycles and break it in and get it dyno'd again and post your results.I'd be interested-and fully believe your figures-as should anyone sensible.

As long as they are way under a new KTM or YZ 250's figures :)

Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline ford832

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2010, 05:35:50 AM »
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Glenn C- When you are ready to do your top end get it dyno'd.Then run it through a few heat cycles and break it in and get it dyno'd again and post your results.I'd be interested-and fully believe your figures-as should anyone sensible.

As long as they are way under a new KTM or YZ 250's figures :)



Agreed as I know my YZ makes an honest seat of the pants 60 hp. :D
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline Coop

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2010, 06:10:45 AM »
Agreed as I know my YZ makes an honest seat of the pants 60 hp. :D

Hahaha...but an '85 CR500 will still smoke ya!  ;D

- Mike - Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive.

Offline ford832

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Re: Favorite Bike
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2010, 05:38:03 PM »
D'oh :(

Hey,wait.What if I was to run the old YZ on Jetz's Maico Dyno? :D ;)
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.