AMA Proposal Notes

[burn1986]

I have tried to upload my proposal here buy it is too big. Here it is without any of the charts:http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/WE-BUILD-A-KTM-300SX-BIGBORE-MOTOCROSS-BIKE-6884.aspx

The gain in horsepower of this project raises the 250 two horsepower from 49 to 51, but it rises over the whole power curve which translates into less needed precision and effort from the rider to stay competitive with a 450F.

The main benefit of racing a 2-stroke vs. a 4-stroke is the lower cost and ease of maintenance. Listed below is an article on the comparison costs of 2 vs. 4 strokes:

http://www.lasleeve.com/galleries/2-vs-4-cost/DirtBike606-p102-104-lores.pdf

Pro-Circuit -

...Pro-Circuit cost chart from their website for 4 and 2-stroke motor work...

Overall, the costs of racing a 4-stroke are much higher than a 2-stroke, not to mention the actual cost of the motorcycles themselves.

Honda CRF 450 $8099
Honda CRF 250 $7199
YZ 125 $6090
YZ 250 $6990

KTM 250SX $6598
KTM 150SX $6198

Most 4-strokes are about $1000 more than 2-strokes, with maintenance and racing costs causing this figure to be more than what most privateers and smaller teams can handle. This $1000 difference will primarily fit into any big bore kit available today. Listed below is a spreadsheet with the current 2-stroke production bikes with the most widely available big-bore kits available: (Excel Spreadsheet pretty jumbled on here)

Bikes:     Bike Cost   /Mod. Displac/KTM parts/    GYTR/   LASleeve/Eric Gorr/MaxRPMs
                     
KTM150   $6,198   n/a                   
KTM250   $6,598   300          $799.00               
YZ125   $6,090   144                     $859.95       $495.00   
        144 stroker                   $1,125.00
YZ 250   $6,990   265                   $900.00
        270                        $660.00       
        275                            $500.00   
        285                            $600.00   $900.00
       295                            $600.00   
TM 125   $7,499   144                            $475.00   
TM 144   $7,699   n/a                   
TM 250   $7,799   275                            $550.00   
TM 300   $7,999   n/a                   

LA Sleeve 800-822-6005, Eric Gorr 630-825-5645, Max RPMs 608-224-2524

While there is no evidence of attendance dropping in Supercross and Motocross events, the brunt of the motorcycle industry will be felt in the coming years and months. Listed below is an article on motorcycle sales from the first quarter of 2010 compared to 2009:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/4/7033/Motorcycle-Article/Motorcycle-Sales-Down-First-Quarter-2010.aspxThat's pretty much it so far.

[burn1986]

I went ahead and submitted it. Here is Al Ludington's reply:

Mark,
 You have done a first rate job with your presentation. This is a text book example of how to instigate a rule change. It sure beats the hell out of calling up and screaming! I have passed the petition, proposed rule change and your documentation to my counterparts at S/X and M/X and will keep you abreast of any dialogues that come up as a result. Thanks again for the great job. Just for the record this rule change has my support. My feeling is that 4 strokes have drastically increased the price of racing and may be limiting the size and quality of our grids.

Al Ludington
Technical Director
AMA Pro Racing

[eprovenzano]

 burn1986 may I say tou did an excellent job with the presentation.  I know may of us want equal displacement....  but we know that will never happen, the MFG's have too much invested to let that happen.  I realy like the 150/300 proposal.

Again job well done.

[JETZcorp]

Amazing.  This is a lot of work to go through for anything, and it's awesome to see that someone's actually doing it!

[Chris2T]

Major props to you Burn1986, thanks! Incidentally i think the best thing we could do to help is get your petition put up on as many websites as possible, not least of which is Rick "Super Hunky" Siemen's. 1,300 is a lot but 10,000 would be much better   

[miedosoracing]

Burn, great job. You definitely did something that I should have thought of. Kudos..  I will add one thing and it is not a bang on you. But one thing you had written is that the major manufactures stopped making them.  That would be incorrect.  Everyone except Honda makes the same 2 strokes they did back in 2005-06. They just aren't shipped here.  Yamaha is the only one shipping them. Just thought I would let you know that.  

[Coop]

Awesome. Great work!

[TxTechRedRider]

Representative Burn,

Thanks for all your hard work.
It is appreciated.
You have my vote as our first 2t representative to the Ama/Fim board.  

[burn1986]

Man, that would be incredible! Maybe they will give me a brand new 2 stroke of my choice! Boy, now that would be a tough decision!

[TxTechRedRider]

Yes, it would be a tough decision.

WATCH OUT, Luke
the 4t dark side is lurking, they may try to corrupt you with promises of multiple 4t factory bikes....and an announcer position

[Out of Order]

I like this one from Al.

It sure beats the hell out of calling up and screaming!

This is the same guy from the You Tube video screaming at a road racer privateer. I'm not sure what that poor privateer did to piss him off, but it probably wasn't good, but who knows there's always two sides to a story. If I was Al I would of never lit off like that, because yelling and screaming in someones face or on a telephone doesn't get anything accomplished. It's bad business ethics, remember Al that the AMA is a company, do the most successful companies yell and scream at their customers. NO!! 

Now lets see if this rule change will happen, only time will tell. If the AMA had good business ethics they would pass this rule change no problem.

Other than that Good job Burn1986 and I really hope you get the change you want. I support it 110% because it's a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work.

[2smoker]

WOW!!!!! Guys are frigging hard worker!!!!Love the answer from AL this time!

[2smoker]

Major props to you Burn1986, thanks! Incidentally i think the best thing we could do to help is get your petition put up on as many websites as possible, not least of which is Rick "Super Hunky" Siemen's. 1,300 is a lot but 10,000 would be much better   

Yeah lets spam The major websites .. even the quad guys.. Thumpertalk. etc...

[meger z]

Love it ! but there is one big thing that needs to be said and that is swept volume ? .OK here gos a 2t has a stroke that is half the length of a 4t why ? well Look into your 2t barrel you will see that half the way down is the ports this means that the power stroke is over at the point where the the ports start.Look into a 4t barrel and there are no ports this means that the power stroke  is a full power stoke.there was some talk years ago that 2ts should be measured as the stroke being only from the top of the port .As you see this is a massive advantage to the 4ts and was not taken into consideration when the crack pot rules were made .   

[burn1986]

Hmmm. Maybe they will ask for more information. I'll bet if the petition gets over 2000 they will overlook some stuff.