150f in 85 class argument over at ktmtalk

[matified]

I have seen it up close and personal, attended AMA congress on the issue, and they shot down Honda on the 150 in the 85 class. But all this fuss over nothing. The 150 does not have clear advantages over the 85, even modded, they both can run head to head. we see it all the time at our local events , even many kids that ran 150r have went back to the two strokes, lighter, easier to move around and maintain. the 150 engine really is more two stroke like than any other bigger four stroke.
It has very little low end power and very similar top end style power. the pluses and minuses balance out. At races in the elevation, like powder mountain  a few years ago we saw the two strokes dominate with holeshots and the top of the class was two strokes.

[citabjockey]

And that is you the YZ400F went against the 250's back in the day. It took some serious development to get it up to the 250 two stroke level. Honda can make the 150r a 85 killer given enough time. It may not be the situation right now but if the rules allow the 150 then the two stroke 85's WILL become an endangered species. This is history repeating itself.

How do we contact decision makeing members of the AMA to make our voices heard?

I have seen it up close and personal, attended AMA congress on the issue, and they shot down Honda on the 150 in the 85 class. But all this fuss over nothing. The 150 does not have clear advantages over the 85, even modded, they both can run head to head. we see it all the time at our local events , even many kids that ran 150r have went back to the two strokes, lighter, easier to move around and maintain. the 150 engine really is more two stroke like than any other bigger four stroke.
It has very little low end power and very similar top end style power. the pluses and minuses balance out. At races in the elevation, like powder mountain  a few years ago we saw the two strokes dominate with holeshots and the top of the class was two strokes.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

How do we contact decision makeing members of the AMA to make our voices heard?

You can't.

See the Nobby Clark AMHF hubub. Until the head is cut off, the sickness will remain.

[chump6784]

In that article i posted a summary of it actually said that the profit margin on mini bikes is really slim and manufacturers use the mini's as a way of building brand loyalty. Honda is hell bent on 4 strokes so they will put their money towards that, the other mfg's just want to compete and right now they dont need to build a 4 stroke to do that.

We have had 150 vs 85 for a couple of years over here now and it seems the only kids that ride the 150 are the ones who's dad thinks they would be quicker on a 4 stroke or dad is a die hard honda fan. The quickest kids are on 2 strokes and its basically a split between yamaha and ktm depending on the dealer in the area

I agree that if/when Honda gets the 150 in the 85 class in the states they will then pull out all the stops and make it smash the competition. Right now they just have to wait and make it look like a fair fight. History repeating itself

[Stusmoke]

They've only said that because its not really working out that well for Honda. If the 150f is allowed in the 85 classes by AMA rules I'll be willing to be the other big guns will put out their own recreation.

Yes and no stu.
Honda have been trying for 4-5 years to get the 150R into the 85 class and all along all the other manufactors have said they are not interested.
BUT if the powers that be do let it in I am sure the others may follow suit. 
I think 1 of the reasons no one else is interested is they are making money for jam from the 85's as they have no developement costs with the bikes now and all the brands bikes are competitve against each other.
Why spend money developing a new bike when you make plenty from the bike you have.

4-5 years? WOW is it that long? That went fast. I can remember desperately wanting one when they first came out... Maaaaaaan am I glad I didn't get that wish. But you do raise a good point in terms of the profit margin most companies make on the 85s.

With regards to people saying the 150s are on par with or slower than the 85s its the same thing as a 250 and a 450. Yeah, they can win, but at a local level it comes down to the rider alot more than it does the bike.

[Coop]

I can't remember if it was last year (2011) or the year before but theyt had a special 150f race at the Steel City national. It was one of the boring races I've ever watched. I know those kids were racing and trying their best, but it was pretty awful to watch in my opinion.

[Stusmoke]

I can't remember if it was last year (2011) or the year before but theyt had a special 150f race at the Steel City national. It was one of the boring races I've ever watched. I know those kids were racing and trying their best, but it was pretty awful to watch in my opinion.

Four stroke racing is horrible to watch in general. but there are a couple of fast kids at my track that ride the 150Fs.

[eprovenzano]

Four stroke racing is horrible to watch in general. but there are a couple of fast kids at my track that ride the 150Fs.

If those kids were on 85's while they may not be the fastest, they will "learn" how to ride a bike.  They will learn proper technique, proper clutch and throttle control, and in the end will be the fastest rider with proper technique.  In this instance I see dad teaching JR winning at all costs, is more important than learning / using proper technique, and proper riding style.  Unfortunately this happens in more sports then riding motorcycles

[Logan Dewey]

I dont understand, 150f's are powerless woods bikes, how would those pose any threat to the 85's... 150R's on the other hand

[twosmoke595]

I dont understand, 150f's are powerless woods bikes, how would those pose any threat to the 85's... 150R's on the other hand

for all intensive purposes, we're talking about the 150 4 stroke race bike lol NOT the 230 pound 150 mom bike

[Logan Dewey]

I dont understand, 150f's are powerless woods bikes, how would those pose any threat to the 85's... 150R's on the other hand

for all intensive purposes, we're talking about the 150 4 stroke race bike lol NOT the 230 pound 150 mom bike

Oh he said 150f so it got me all confused haha!

[Stusmoke]

I dont understand, 150f's are powerless woods bikes, how would those pose any threat to the 85's... 150R's on the other hand

for all intensive purposes, we're talking about the 150 4 stroke race bike lol NOT the 230 pound 150 mom bike

Oh he said 150f so it got me all confused haha!

My bad, sorry lol.

Four stroke racing is horrible to watch in general. but there are a couple of fast kids at my track that ride the 150Fs.

If those kids were on 85's while they may not be the fastest, they will "learn" how to ride a bike.  They will learn proper technique, proper clutch and throttle control, and in the end will be the fastest rider with proper technique.  In this instance I see dad teaching JR winning at all costs, is more important than learning / using proper technique, and proper riding style.  Unfortunately this happens in more sports then riding motorcycles

I completely agree. Winning at all costs shouldn't even be the mindset at the highest level, it should always be: Go out there, give it your best and may the best rider win. Winning at all costs breeds dirty riding which is crap to watch. Winning at all costs is part of the reason we're sitting here discussing the four stroke propaganda crap that Honda pumps out.