Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: miedosoracing on January 04, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
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Even the pro's are starting to see changes because of the beloved fart machines.
Twitter: Josh Hill-The SX tracks were so much better in 95
Chad Reed-True that! Bring back whoops and big berms.
Josh Hansen- And the big rhythms. Tracks are horrible now
Chad Reed- Skills & Technique would be useful
Josh Hansen- Isn't that the truth, until then keep watching NASCAR and learn how to draft
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I watch some of the riders twitters this time of year to. I seen Josh Grant sold his 2009 Joe Gibbs yz250 2t right before new years. It still had an FMF welded factory pipe, works wheels, clamps, bars, levers, etc...it was just like he rode it at x-games except for the suspension. Had only 6 hours sold for $5500.
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Thats pretty awesome to read the top guys dont like the tracks. Bring back the gnarliest of tracks, and I think we would see some guys back on two strokes lining up on the gate.
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And outside of SX, I'd like to see more of the MX tracks be natural-terrain with the gnarliness and insanity from previous years. Not all tracks, I mean variety is a good thing to there should be smooth modern-style tracks with lots of jump as well as rough and wild older style tracks. But there should at least be one track on the schedule for the pros that a relatively unskilled rider would simply not be able to ride without falling down. Bob Hannah's personal test track was like that in the olden days, and especially in Europe they had some really hairy stuff.
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On racerx Nick Wey was tweeting saying that he rode his 2smoke today at the track. He was also telling everyone how he was going to whoop them in a two strokes race him and some other pros were going to do. I dont remember wich riders he was talking with.
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I watch some of the riders twitters this time of year to. I seen Josh Grant sold his 2009 Joe Gibbs yz250 2t right before new years. It still had an FMF welded factory pipe, works wheels, clamps, bars, levers, etc...it was just like he rode it at x-games except for the suspension. Had only 6 hours sold for $5500.
He rode the crap out of it at surfercross. Probaly closer to 20 hours because of that.
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On racerx Nick Wey was tweeting saying that he rode his 2smoke today at the track. He was also telling everyone how he was going to whoop them in a two strokes race him and some other pros were going to do. I dont remember wich riders he was talking with.
That is way cool !!!! Hopefully see some big things with two stroke races this year. Sounds like plenty of the top riders would be keen.
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Would love to see Reedy on a smoker again i reckon he would still kick arse on on...
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The fever will only start to grow with the pros.
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The fever will only start to grow with the pros.
I agree but remember they get "PAID" to ride the thumpers... With so few rides being available, the pro riders are going to toe the company line. "This 4 stroke really puts the power to the ground, blah blah blah" you know the company line...
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Yeah, you're right... However, when something is fun, lighter, easier to maintain, then its only a matter of time before people are drawn to it. 2-strokes are becoming a breath of fresh air to everyone.
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Guys dont flame me but I gotta say this. Im all for supporting 2 strokes and will always own one, but some of the stuff I read on here regarding pro sx/mx racing is very far fetched. Its easier to go fast on a modern 4 stroke period. Not all those guys are getting "paid" just to ride a 4 stroke they get paid to promote a product (brand) and win races. Why arent all the top privateers going out and buying 2 strokes? Why didnt Chad Reed go buy new 2 stroke's instead of new crf450s? Because they simply cant match the performance of a modern 4 stroke at that level. Its sad but true. The pro's twitter about winning on a 2 stroke because its a joke. Unless the rules change no serious racer/team trying to win a sx/mx title will ever pick a 2 stroke over a 4. Woods racing is different.
I completly agree that 2 strokes are lighter, cheaper, easier to maintain and more fun but the truth is they are out-classed in the racing world at the pro level. Put Ryan Dungey on a RM250 tomorrow night and he might get top 15. Dont get me wrong I love 2 strokes as much as the next guy but thats just how I see it.
Ok thats all, Im going to work on my 125.
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It's easier to go faster on a modern 4 stroke, because they are modern first. Second, the tracks are made for them. Third, fuel changes made it harder for 2 stroke to make power. There are so many reasons. But these are facts of the current Pro series. Give us old rules, tracks with 180 turns, tone down sounds of 4 strokes, and a current bike and I'd say you are way off. Prime example is that of Cedric. The FIM has lower sound limits, the tracks are shorter of course, but have tighter turns, and he was on a current bike. He didn't do too shabby, right? One thing to remember also. Had the rules of 360cc 4 stroke against 250cc 2 strokes stayed like it had been since like 1970, we wouldn't be having this conversation. They changed to suite accomodate the 4 strokes.
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It's easier to go faster on a modern 4 stroke, because they are modern first. Second, the tracks are made for them. Third, fuel changes made it harder for 2 stroke to make power. There are so many reasons. But these are facts of the current Pro series. Give us old rules, tracks with 180 turns, tone down sounds of 4 strokes, and a current bike and I'd say you are way off.
I agree. And my comment isnt directed towards anyone its what Ive seen in several threads. Just my opinion
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But we cant talk about "what if" of "if they would do this it would be different".....this is how it is now. Some jackass somewere said lets make 4 strokes rule the racing world and they did. Its simply not fair for a 2 stroke anymore. The FIM has lower sound limits, tighter tracks, and shorter courses but they also have slower riders than us to.
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Maybe, maybe not. Many of the top riders there have came here and done well, right? We will see how Cedric does. I think many will be impressed. He will do better than most say, and say not qualify for the main.
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From what Ive seen I think he has a VERY good chance of making a main(s).
And Im not trying to start a big debate on whats better or take anything away from Cedric, Im just stating my opinion on the pro racing part. Im still pre-mixed for life and hope they stop selling 4 strokes one day but as long as I follow the racing Im going to call it how I see it.
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I know you Americans are aways saying you have the better riders but until there is only one series it can be debated all night long.
Guys like Roczen,Desalle,Philippaerts,Coppins would do well anywere. Hell Coppins even got a top 10 on the POS Aprillia at the mxdn & he is a old bugger.
BT has done both series and when fit can run with anyone.
Different series different tracks.
BTW, Good morning & Happy New Year everyone.
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I know you Americans are aways saying you have the better riders but until there is only one series it can be debated all night long.
Guys like Roczen,Desalle,Philippaerts,Coppins would do well anywere. Hell Coppins even got a top 10 on the POS Aprillia at the mxdn & he is a old bugger.
BT has done both series and when fit can run with anyone.
Different series different tracks.
BTW, Good morning & Happy New Year everyone.
:) Happy Newyear
They do have "one series" that is run every year to determine the best. Its called the Motocross des Nations and America has won it 21 times in 40 years, the last 5 in a row. Im not saying you guys dont have good riders, just saying usually the best SX riders are here in the US. Just look at the results from Bercy and Geneva the last few years. I agree guys like Roczen, Desalle, Philippaerts, Coppins all would do well anywere but none of them have any titles in the US. Ben Townley won a lites title but never really did anything in the big bikes, Cairoli has never won anything in the US....he just backed out of the 2011 SX series a few days ago because KTM knew what would happen. Ken Roczen has the best chance of winning a SX title over any of the other foreign riders besides Chad Reed this season. I wish him luck
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You're right...
Every Manufacturer has made it clear that they won't pay anyone to ride a two stroke in Motocross OR Supercross, no matter how good they are or what kind of press they generate...
If you're really lucky as a 2 stroke rider, someone like DV might break ranks with the establishment and let you sleep on his couch so you can race some rounds.
The interesting thing is that guys who are slower than you, but ride 4 strokes, might be brought in as factory riders...
American pro racing is joke. It's a Manufacturer run puppet show. The competition among the racers is real, but everything else about it is like a Kool Aid commercial and is there to maintain market share for a line of products which are basically inferior. Throw enough garbage through the TV at the dummies and some of it will stick.
Until one of the Manufacturers who sells both 2 strokes and 4 strokes in the US is willing to support riders who want to ride their 2 stroke product instead of JUST their 4 stroke product THEN PRO RACING IS JUST A KOOL AID COMMERCIAL.
Thanks,
Jim
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I know you Americans are aways saying you have the better riders but until there is only one series it can be debated all night long.
Guys like Roczen,Desalle,Philippaerts,Coppins would do well anywere. Hell Coppins even got a top 10 on the POS Aprillia at the mxdn & he is a old bugger.
BT has done both series and when fit can run with anyone.
Different series different tracks.
BTW, Good morning & Happy New Year everyone.
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:) Happy Newyear
They do have "one series" that is run every year to determine the best. Its called the Motocross des Nations and America has won it 21 times in 40 years, the last 5 in a row. Im not saying you guys dont have good riders, just saying usually the best SX riders are here in the US. Just look at the results from Bercy and Geneva the last few years. I agree guys like Roczen, Desalle, Philippaerts, Coppins all would do well anywere but none of them have any titles in the US. Ben Townley won a lites title but never really did anything in the big bikes, Cairoli has never won anything in the US....he just backed out of the 2011 SX series a few days ago because KTM knew what would happen. Ken Roczen has the best chance of winning a SX title over any of the other foreign riders besides Chad Reed this season. I wish him luck
Yep, the Americians own supercross, no to ways about it, but motocross, I'm not so sure.
The MXDN analogy I find a bit flawed, for the simlpe reason.
The U.S. is quite possibly the largest county in the world in both land mass and population, therefore you have a massive "talent pool' to draw from. Europe on the other hand, although about the same land mass and population, is split into about 20 different countries.The effect of this is like expecting the U.S. to field a team from every state.
Would the stats be the same if it was a U.S. vs Eurpoe vs ANZACS vs.........
Secondly, the Europeans that come to compete in the U.S. series, certainly are very competitive....especially those bloody Frenchmen(They take your trophies AND your women ;) ). How many Americians have ventured across to race G.P's successfully ? Not many.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a yank bash, and for some reason any Americian rider that comes to town has a certain "auroa" about them, are they superhuman, no I don't think so, just fast in their own backyard