More Noob two stroke exposure

[citabjockey]

I have a neighbor that recently brought home a 1980's vintage XL250 -- for free. He managed to get it running without too much trouble about 18 months ago. The thing works and is representative of the type. The only issues are a broken rear fender brace under the plastic fender (so it bobs the taillight when going over bumps) and some oil seeping from the engine (in the valve gear area naturally). Pretty good for a free bike.

Anyway, we got a chance to go to our local riding area this past Sunday. I had not exercised the Great Pumpkin 380 in over a month (maybe two?) so I took that. 

My friend is a beginner to low intermediate rider but managed to do some nice single trail without too many issues. I kept upping the difficulty level but he never stopped. Even tossed a pretty lumpy rock uphill at him. No problem. He paddles a bit, tips over every now and then, but overcame everything.

We stopped at one of our medium difficulty hills. Not really difficult but the approach has some mid level whoops and its steep enough to make you not want to stop and turn around. I blasted up that a couple of times on the pumpkin. He stayed put and asked me afterwards "were you really in control with the front wheel in the air and the rear flailing around a bit?". I said sure -- just point it uphill and gas it. Easy as pie. He considered trying it with the XL but decided against it.

Towards the end of the day I convinced him to swap bikes.

So that XL250 weighs about 300 lbs and makes about 20 HP (if even that). The flywheel feels like it is about 3 feet in diameter. I think it has about 8" of travel and that is setup in pure barcalounger mode. The thing floats over the small stuff  like a Cadillac DeVille. And engine makes no power. Hard to lift the front wheel, no squirting the rear around. But is does hook up and is pretty easy to manage -- of course.

Now I don't think Jim has ever been on a serious offroad bike -- and I am not sure he has ever ridden a two stroke. So the 380 kind of was like tossing him into the deep end of the pool so to speak. That said he seemed to manage it pretty well. No issues except for stalling it a couple of times (and he was even able to restart it).

We came back to the truck and he was amazed at the bike. Big grin on his face. Said the steering was so precise, the brakes so potent and easy to use, and the motor was ridiculous (naturally). I think gears were turning in his head.

I guess I have to start working on him. 

[Stusmoke]

I've been reading up on Motorcycling australia rules and I think frame and chassis mods are legal? I wonder if they would let me drop a 380 motor into a 250sx chassis and run in the opens...

[Jeram]

I've been reading up on Motorcycling australia rules and I think frame and chassis mods are legal? I wonder if they would let me drop a 380 motor into a 250sx chassis and run in the opens...

Wait till the end of the year,
In 12 months Ill hopefully have an 78mm big bore racing cylinder for the KTM250SX ready and on the market.
I discussed it with my cylinder designer at Ferrari in Italy and we think it will be simple to modify my exisitng 380GP cylinder to fit the 250SX motor.

Ill be testing the basic design of it on the 380 roadracer engine this year, then adjusting the design to work on a 250SX motor with power suited to MX racing.

Im thinking 55-60rwhp with good bottom end and torque.
Will have 350cc and will rev to 9000rpm

Its interesting, I think the only changes will be a slight difference in the base gasket surface and adjusting the ports for the 72mm stroke. easy peasy when your doing 3D printing of the sand mold.

If you can find a few people people willing to put down a refundable deposit (ei: confirming that they actually want one and not just tire kicking) Id probably consider expediting the design process and have it ready in a couple months.

Imagine that a 60hp KTM350 2T with a six speed tranny, that will bolt onto any modern KTM 250/300

[Stusmoke]

I've been reading up on Motorcycling australia rules and I think frame and chassis mods are legal? I wonder if they would let me drop a 380 motor into a 250sx chassis and run in the opens...

Wait till the end of the year,
In 12 months Ill hopefully have an 78mm big bore racing cylinder for the KTM250SX ready and on the market.
I discussed it with my cylinder designer at Ferrari in Italy and we think it will be simple to modify my exisitng 380GP cylinder to fit the 250SX motor.

Ill be testing the basic design of it on the 380 roadracer engine this year, then adjusting the design to work on a 250SX motor with power suited to MX racing.

Im thinking 55-60rwhp with good bottom end and torque.
Will have 350cc and will rev to 9000rpm

Its interesting, I think the only changes will be a slight difference in the base gasket surface and adjusting the ports for the 72mm stroke. easy peasy when your doing 3D printing of the sand mold.

If you can find a few people people willing to put down a refundable deposit (ei: confirming that they actually want one and not just tire kicking) Id probably consider expediting the design process and have it ready in a couple months.

Imagine that a 60hp KTM350 2T with a six speed tranny, that will bolt onto any modern KTM 250/300

Count me in for test riding! I wont break it I promise

[citabjockey]

Hmmmm, threadjack alert?    " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">

[Jeram]

I have a neighbor that recently brought home a 1980's vintage XL250 -- for free. He managed to get it running without too much trouble about 18 months ago. The thing works and is representative of the type. The only issues are a broken rear fender brace under the plastic fender (so it bobs the taillight when going over bumps) and some oil seeping from the engine (in the valve gear area naturally). Pretty good for a free bike.

Anyway, we got a chance to go to our local riding area this past Sunday. I had not exercised the Great Pumpkin 380 in over a month (maybe two?) so I took that. 

My friend is a beginner to low intermediate rider but managed to do some nice single trail without too many issues. I kept upping the difficulty level but he never stopped. Even tossed a pretty lumpy rock uphill at him. No problem. He paddles a bit, tips over every now and then, but overcame everything.

We stopped at one of our medium difficulty hills. Not really difficult but the approach has some mid level whoops and its steep enough to make you not want to stop and turn around. I blasted up that a couple of times on the pumpkin. He stayed put and asked me afterwards "were you really in control with the front wheel in the air and the rear flailing around a bit?". I said sure -- just point it uphill and gas it. Easy as pie. He considered trying it with the XL but decided against it.

Towards the end of the day I convinced him to swap bikes.

So that XL250 weighs about 300 lbs and makes about 20 HP (if even that). The flywheel feels like it is about 3 feet in diameter. I think it has about 8" of travel and that is setup in pure barcalounger mode. The thing floats over the small stuff  like a Cadillac DeVille. And engine makes no power. Hard to lift the front wheel, no squirting the rear around. But is does hook up and is pretty easy to manage -- of course.

Now I don't think Jim has ever been on a serious offroad bike -- and I am not sure he has ever ridden a two stroke. So the 380 kind of was like tossing him into the deep end of the pool so to speak. That said he seemed to manage it pretty well. No issues except for stalling it a couple of times (and he was even able to restart it).

We came back to the truck and he was amazed at the bike. Big grin on his face. Said the steering was so precise, the brakes so potent and easy to use, and the motor was ridiculous (naturally). I think gears were turning in his head.

I guess I have to start working on him. 

My bad on the hijack, all fixed.

So the moral of the story is that a 1980 XL250 is not as good as a 2000 KTM 380?
no way!
I don't believe you!

[Stusmoke]

I have a neighbor that recently brought home a 1980's vintage XL250 -- for free. He managed to get it running without too much trouble about 18 months ago. The thing works and is representative of the type. The only issues are a broken rear fender brace under the plastic fender (so it bobs the taillight when going over bumps) and some oil seeping from the engine (in the valve gear area naturally). Pretty good for a free bike.

Anyway, we got a chance to go to our local riding area this past Sunday. I had not exercised the Great Pumpkin 380 in over a month (maybe two?) so I took that. 

My friend is a beginner to low intermediate rider but managed to do some nice single trail without too many issues. I kept upping the difficulty level but he never stopped. Even tossed a pretty lumpy rock uphill at him. No problem. He paddles a bit, tips over every now and then, but overcame everything.

We stopped at one of our medium difficulty hills. Not really difficult but the approach has some mid level whoops and its steep enough to make you not want to stop and turn around. I blasted up that a couple of times on the pumpkin. He stayed put and asked me afterwards "were you really in control with the front wheel in the air and the rear flailing around a bit?". I said sure -- just point it uphill and gas it. Easy as pie. He considered trying it with the XL but decided against it.

Towards the end of the day I convinced him to swap bikes.

So that XL250 weighs about 300 lbs and makes about 20 HP (if even that). The flywheel feels like it is about 3 feet in diameter. I think it has about 8" of travel and that is setup in pure barcalounger mode. The thing floats over the small stuff  like a Cadillac DeVille. And engine makes no power. Hard to lift the front wheel, no squirting the rear around. But is does hook up and is pretty easy to manage -- of course.

Now I don't think Jim has ever been on a serious offroad bike -- and I am not sure he has ever ridden a two stroke. So the 380 kind of was like tossing him into the deep end of the pool so to speak. That said he seemed to manage it pretty well. No issues except for stalling it a couple of times (and he was even able to restart it).

We came back to the truck and he was amazed at the bike. Big grin on his face. Said the steering was so precise, the brakes so potent and easy to use, and the motor was ridiculous (naturally). I think gears were turning in his head.

I guess I have to start working on him. 

My bad on the hijack, all fixed.

So the moral of the story is that a 1980 XL250 is not as good as a 2000 KTM 380?
no way!
I don't believe you!

My bad too, sorry.

is the XL a four stroke?

[eprovenzano]

citabjockey I bet the grin on his face was awesome...  I, as the newly appointed smoke evangelist, feel it's your duty to counsel your neighbor in the proper selection of a dirt bike.  Even I (the newly appointed smoke evangelist) must admit a XL 250 is a great 1st bike, especially when it was free...  but you need to make sure his next bike requires the gas and oil to be mixed before entering the combustion chamber...

All kidding aside I bet he needed to change his shorts after riding the big pumpkin... I'm sure he was on craigslist last night checking the ads for a modern smoker.  Too funny

[Coop]

That could have went two ways with a noob on a bike like that.

1) He crashed his brains out and was afraid of two strokes forever.
2) He fell in love with two strokes and now wants one.

I think #2 fits in this case 

[citabjockey]

I thought that case #1 was possible and that I would just have him swing a leg over it in the parking area. But then I saw how measured he was on the trials and with significantly more talent than he acknowledges. He is also very fit. So I handed him the pumpkin on some single track. 

Oh, and it has the  small flywheel ignition in it (I stole the 2k3 for my two fiddy) -- making it even more interesting to crack the throttle. LOL

And from on high lord EPro said unto his disciples:
"Go forth and spread the premix gospel for blessed are those that have heard the ring ding"

 

That could have went two ways with a noob on a bike like that.

1) He crashed his brains out and was afraid of two strokes forever.
2) He fell in love with two strokes and now wants one.

I think #2 fits in this case 

[cnrcpla]

Good for him. There's the next convert 

[eprovenzano]

And from on high lord EPro said unto his disciples:
"Go forth and spread the premix gospel for blessed are those that have heard the ring ding"

citabjockey you crack me up...   

[motoxr377]

And from on high lord EPro said unto his disciples:
"Go forth and spread the premix gospel for blessed are those that have heard the ring ding"

citabjockey you crack me up...   

Hilarious!

[citabjockey]

You know what? As far a fun factor goes and just having some fun on two wheels, an old XL250 really is just fine.

 What is so amazing is that you can have two dirt bikes sitting next to one another and unless your are familiar with the sport you would think that they are pretty much carbon copies of each other. The reality of course is that the behavior can be wildly different. But just as bikes can have individual personalities so do the folks that ride them.

I could clearly see riders that would think my pumpkin is simply a rough riding, uncontrollable, sudden, vibrating mass of smoke generating machinery and not want to have anything to do with it. The would look over that the XL -- perhaps swing a leg over it -- and think "this thing is soft, comfy, pretty quiet, and easy to ride (slowly)" and would pick it first.

As they say, different strokes for different folks.

But all that said, my pumpkin is not leaking around the valve cover gasket. Nor is it likely to -- ever!  LOL.

So the moral of the story is that a 1980 XL250 is not as good as a 2000 KTM 380?
no way!
I don't believe you!

[citabjockey]

is the XL a four stroke?

Sure is, here is a likeness of the 300 lb paper weight he brought along:

My bad too, sorry.

No worries on the threadjack guys.