HGT Fuel Injection kit on our YZ 144 Project.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

I am far from being a GREEN and short of having a pony tail, I am a long way from being a dirty hippy. But you have to recognize that unless we evolve into a greener sport, we will be legislated out of existence. We have seen 10's of millions of acres of land taken away from us. We have seen the end of 2T production street bikes. We've seen the end of 2T boat and lawn equipment - some with only the threat of law, not an actual law. Yes, the 2T is having a recovery but unless it evolves into a less polluting product, it will die.

So what can we do about it? We can accept the inevitable and find solutions to the actual problems. What is the problem with the 2T? It is a dirty pig (emissions wise), so we need a solution to that. Fuel Injection is one solution that still allows equal performance. That is a win. Yes, it is more complicated. Yes, it has its problems, but the solution is not to stick our collective heads in the sand and hide. It is not to (like my son does) plot down on our asses and cry until we get our way. Mommy will not come pick us up, give us kisses and let us do what we want.

I am excited for this product. I think it is the right way to go and something long overdue. I just hope that the AMA doesn't ban it's use (per the homologation rules) and it catches on.

[EJ]

this isnt voodoo. 500cc grandprix bikes were running EFI in the mid 90s.

Really? Are you sure about that? The only 2 injected 500's that were ever reported to have ever ran was Shinichi Ito's NSR500 in 95(bloody hell he's riding this weekend too ) or so at Hockenhiem and Cagiva made one that Carl Fogarty rode once and described as "a peaky unrideable piece of shit" when it was mothballed along with the carbon fibre frame.
KTM FRR125 had an injector in the crankcase to prevent seizures on over run.
Unless all those magazine I have here are wrong?

How you going to get 12v to run the pump?

All i could find was this quote;

,,...The new bike also ran fuel injection that the Aussie refused to use,
so Itoh was given the chance of developing the system.
At Hockenheim his NSR became the first GP bike to clock 200mph
but the PGM-FI never worked better than conventional carbs and was quietly dropped a year later.''

Source: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/NSR500.htm

[ford832]

All iin all,FI is a hokey bunch of sh!t.Also,disc brakes will never replace drums and the horseless carraige is simply a fad.The future may finally be here and bike wise,it's about 20 yrs overdue.Get over it you pony tail wearing hippies-embrace the future or get left behind   

[Bioflex]

Well then, I am surprised someone hasn't said it yet, but great job Charles!
I don't know whether these HGI kits are any good, if it is possible to get FI working on a performance 2 stroke or anything at all about the real world changes it will bring.
I'm very glad TSM is giving it a go though and very much looking forward to following the project with interest.

Would be fantastic to see some dyno graphs! of before and after.

[falston1]

As for the lack of a battery, i think a lot of people would be surprised at what a capacitor can do. Ever wonder how an airbag can deploy when the car's battery is destroyed in a front end collision? There is no power coming from the battery to deploy the airbag. The computer has capacitors in it that store electricity for when there is none. Granted, it uses the electricity up very fast, but how fast does a two stroke engine rev? It doesn't take very long for the stator to come around again and recharge the capacitors. Theres no reason to have a chemical battery when power is constantly being made unless you can't kickstart your bike. EFI is simple to experts, just like carbs are simple to people that know what they are doing with them. Its more people in the dirt bike world that know how to fix or upgrade a carburetor than EFI, so its easier(and cheaper) for the small team or rider to use a carb because thats all they know and grew up with. This is a very big step in the right direction though, even if it may not be for everyone yet. If you oppose it, don't put it on your bike. But in order to get the emissions down, we have to stop putting a 40:1 oil ratio in our fuel. You can't change the oil ratio with a carb. This can be fixed with direct injection. This EFI system can change the oil ratio as needed to be efficient. Burn less oil, be more environmentally friendly.

[falston1]

Well then, I am surprised someone hasn't said it yet, but great job Charles!
I don't know whether these HGI kits are any good, if it is possible to get FI working on a performance 2 stroke or anything at all about the real world changes it will bring.
I'm very glad TSM is giving it a go though and very much looking forward to following the project with interest.

Would be fantastic to see some dyno graphs! of before and after.

Well said! TSM looks to be the leading innovator in 2 stroke motocross. Way to push ahead Charles!

[2T Institute]

Hows the cap get charged and what is the current draw at 11,000rpm? Emmissions ?

EFI only continued with Ito's bike because he was a Japanese rider and towed the party line. Mick Doohan was far less diplomatic, explained in the preceding paragraph.

For the first time ever there was no doubt Honda had the best 500. So what did they do? Yup, they made it worse. With Doohan recuperating from his horrific leg injury, off-season development fell to team-mates Shinichi Itoh and Daryl Beattie. Neither man was brave or experienced enough to tell HRC they'd fallen back into their old habit of chasing ultimate horsepower at the expense of readability. When Honda's limping number-one first rode the bike he hated it. "It was a piece of junk and I told them so," he recalls.

[SachsGS]

Ski Doo 600cc DI 2T, 120 HP, 29 MPG, emissions compliant.

Yamaha 1200cc 4T, 120 HP, 28 MPG, emissions compliant.

[TMKIWI]

I dont think they are pushing it as a emission improvement.
Only performance.

[beaner]

I'm thinking it would be emissions (although injecting the oil separately is probably more important). You won't make any more power with FI than with a carb. Ridability might improve, but only if the tune is right, and it's not always easy.

[SachsGS]

Correct me if I am wrong but DI has yielded substantial power increases in (4T) automobiles.

[falston1]

FI has made it easier for you to just get in your car and go, but it hasn't yielded much power increases. It helps reliability for the people that can't listen to an engine thats not starting and realize they may need to pull the choke out or pump the gas pedal. If there were substantial increases, all performance cars would run FI. In drag racing, the really fast cars run FI (top fuel, top alcohol, ect.) because they pump so much fuel/air into the engines, carburetors would limit the airflow and not allow the fuel delivery. Just to show how much fuel they pump into the 500 ci engines in top fuel, when the engines 'blow' a gasket and make that big fireball, it is because the engine hydro-locked from having so much fuel in the cylinders and blew out the 1/4 inch solid copper head gasket. I think they use about 16 gallons per 1000 ft. Carbs can't deliver that much fuel, but they can keep up with FI on engines with less demands. FI was not introduced for performance, it was introduced for many other reasons like to get people to go to the dealer to work on their cars, so your car can start easier in 20 degree weather, so there can be more electronics that costed less than mechanical equivalents because they were made overseas, ect. My 1974 Plymouth Duster does just as well as any other car, I just have to listen to it in different conditions and know how to adjust the carb on the performance engine in it. If the engine was stock, all I'd need was a choke and it'd be just as good as any other stock 360 ci engine with FI. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to drive my FI Suburban around because of it's convenience. But it has 275 hp when the 454 Chevelle had 450 hp in the '70s with the 800 cfm carbureted LS6 454.

[beaner]

Correct me if I am wrong but DI has yielded substantial power increases in (4T) automobiles.

You can make a little more power with DI, but this is not DI, it's FI.

[monsteryz125]

Not to sound like a dick, but watch american icon the hot rod, they did an episode that included fuel injection and the first time fuel injectuon was used was sometime in the 30s or 40s and was first used in stock car racing, the cars running it instantly gained 30HP and were setting track records

[Mountain Goat]

I'm thinking it would be emissions (although injecting the oil separately is probably more important). You won't make any more power with FI than with a carb. Ridability might improve, but only if the tune is right, and it's not always easy.

HGT port injection doesn't inject oil separately.  You still have to mix.

HGT claims a 5% power increase in the scooters they've been doing.