Confessions

[Uniflow]

[Stusmoke]

Its funny isn't it. Tons more power but you're still just as fast. First 250F I rode was a 2005 CRF250R. While I loved it at the time, as soon as I got my YZ250 I vowed never to own another four stroke motocrosser. I don't find 250Fs easier to ride by any means cos they just don't give with my all or nothing riding style. But I can most definitely understand how someone would go fast on that 250F I owned and the ones I've ridden since. Definitely, just not me.

[motoxr377]

In 2003 I rode a friend's YZ250F. It was leaps and bounds faster than me and my '01 RM125. I wanted one for a while, but couldn't afford it.

Fast forward to 2005. I almost bought a RM-Z450, but at the last second bought an RM250. Best choice, ever!  I instantly destroyed that friend with the 250F!

...then sold the RM in 2006 to pay for school.  I miss 250s.

[Charles Owens]

 kick starting them is like trying to bring someone back to life, they force tracks to close because of the noise, they're boring and unrewarding as balls to ride and you've got to be constantly changing their oil. In comparison to a two stroke that is the opposite of just about every point there, how are they considered to be even remotely okay? They are useless and have only gotten as far as they have now because of rule changes.

Haha, agreed and thanks for the laugh!

[eprovenzano]

Recently towards the end of a long tiring trail ride, a buddy on his YZF 250 was unable to climb a long steep hill...  (be nice we were all pretty tired at this point)  his bike failed to refire... (imagine that)  I walked down and took the bike back down and back up the hill...  My thoughts, yes it hag good traction, the suspension was good, but no fun.  To me I enjoy the "challenge" of controlling the smoker and getting the most out of it.  Another buddy on a KX 125 also had issues..  I also took it down and back up...  The 250F has a lot more torque, but the tiddler was a real challenge to get the bike to the top of the hill. 

I'll stick with my smoker.

[factoryX]

Again. I'm getting tired of explaning this. With the ultra large piston short stroke, it will produce a lot of HP. But it will practically destroy itself. To smooth it out modern 4 strokes run heavy flywheels (Above 13oz) and a counter balancer(Torque!). If you were to do the same thing with a 250 2 stroke you would get the same result. I would love to see anyone try to ride a modern 250f let alone 450f with no counter balancer and a 6-7 oz flywheel. AS for traction control, for real? I guess wimps have a bike to ride as well. 

[yota]

every 4 stroke guy falls back on the "faster lap times, easier to ride, less tiring" rationale.  When did MX become about less tiring, easier to ride?  As far as faster lap times, I heard that argument when the 250 class took over from the 500 class.

The 500 class was not about doing faster laps than 250's, it was about having the skill, fitness and stamina to control the beast for 40 minutes.

[Uniflow]

40 lashes, what was I thinking, that little fourstroke engine is getting unbolted from it's frame and not going back in!!!  The sooner I get on to the twostroke replacement engine the better. Fourstrokes? just a passing phase, long live the rotary valve, the real twostroke!

[motoman356]

heres another way to look at the whole debate.

if you could go buy a super car what would it be? *price is non factor in this* you could have the Mclaren F1 from the 90's which was a pure drivers car. no assists. no abs, no power steering, no radio or power locks. but you had a the fastest car of its day and still competitvly fast. or would you rather have the nissan skyline. which has awd, seating for 4-ish, and has every electronic assit you could want to go fast.

last i checked my left foot wasnt a copy of colin mcrae, or any andretti and therefore is not godly enough to handle a pure unadulterated Mclaren.

your all getting worked up about making this sport "easier" if this or any sport would be retricted to the DIE HARDS who can only live on the edge of death and exciting the fields would be a little empty. seriously if i had a penny for every military person who wasnt a super soldier who belonged in the SEALS id be rich.

point is there should be options. there should be an option for the fringe guy who only rides once in awhile, or the strictly trail guy, or the i have to have the bike with the biggest HP numbers guy.

ive been back an forth on 125s and 250fs for years. and i still couldnt tell you what id rather have. i can rebuild my RM blind and put the bike wherever i wanted but i couldnt get out of the way of my own shadow. on the rmz i used to have, i could ride smooth and comfortable and i didnt worry if i wasnt Wide freaking open all the time

[TMKIWI]

Last MX race I watched didn't look that easy, but I may be wrong. " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">
Some guy called Cairoli did ok in it.

Sounds like these 4 strokes are real easy to ride. Must have ago myself.
Might be able to ride against that Cairoli fella.

[citabjockey]

If we were going to put a rule in place "no easy to ride bikes" then all our scooters would have 3" of travel. I have a feeling the same arguments were being made against forward mounted shocks back in the mid '70s. 

That said the current rule book clearly provides a 4 stroke displacement advantage for the pros. Get rid of that and watch the two stroke ranks grow. And eventually some manufacturer will reproduce the 250F power spread in a 250. THEN it would  probably be game over for the four strokes.

Not holding my breath however.

[Uniflow]

Citabjockey, it can be done but it will require a few electronics.
The irony was we had gone off to this trail ride to get some video of the EFI Bighorn in action. Did the first round on the YZF as a citing round. I've owned this YZF for eight months and never ridden it so this was the first time and as I say was a little shocked. As it happened the guy with the camera and I never met up, so video will have to wait for another day.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

I, like many of you, came up on 2-strokes. I did my time of my XR75 and was faster than all my mates on 80cc 2T's but I never considered anything but a 125 for my next bike (although I got a Yamaha 100, I quickly moved to the 125 Husky). As I got older I move to the 250 and open class but took some time off for education and military. When I became a career military, I took up riding again and got an XR200 because I didn't want to push myself and figured it was a safe and fun toy. I quickly out grew that but after checking my pace to everyone else's, I figured I could make a competitive race bike out of the "toy".

After an Al Baker 220 kit, CR125 suspension, and a truck load of aftermarket parts, my 4-stroke WEAPON was lighter than a CR125 and had more power than either a CR125 or an XR250. To top it off, it was easy to ride and a lot more forgiving than any 2-stroke.

The week before it was to be photographed for a magazine article, then shipped to the Moana Kea 200 Enduro, the engine hand grendaded leaving not much left undamaged from the crank up.

It was replaced with a KX250.

20 years later, after retiring for GNCC's and racing  (and the military), I got a new 2006 CRF250F. It was good for the first few months. I absolutely loved the start button, but I was at an extreme disadvantage on the motocross track. I had not adapted to making the 4-stroke go fast and was working it like a 2T. Being out af shape, and generally weaker than my competition, it was all I could do to break into the top 3 - when I should have been running away with it.

At the same time, I began collecting Vintage motocrossers and enduros. I found that I was just as fast on an EVO 1 bike as I was my CRF (except for starting it after a crash). Now, with more the 20 motorcycles, the only 4-stroke I own is my Quad - that I paid $200 bucks - WITH TRAILER!

[SachsGS]

Let's beat them as the present rules stand. One 2013 direct injected 2T 125 please.

[citabjockey]

IMHO a 125 could not compete with a 250F at the pro level. Ever. The peak power required out of the 125 would mean the spread would be very narrow. DI is not going to help this. DI and other electronic tricks has the possiblity ot taming the powerband of the 250 two stroke by snitching some of the top end HP and piling it lower in the range with shorter port timing and tricks done with timing, and electronic power valve but a 125 has nothing to spare.

Let's beat them as the present rules stand. One 2013 direct injected 2T 125 please.