Sweet Elsinore!

[cmiller493]

I may not know a whole lot about vintage bikes, but I know a good looking bike when I see one. And this bike is gorgeous.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-Honda-CR-250-Elsinore-/130460290716?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item1e600a0e9c

[JETZcorp]

Love the legal warning on the tank saying that the bike may ONLY be used for sanctioned competition racing on a closed course, ONLY!  My dad's 360 Husky has one of those on the steering-head - which is only interesting because the bike has valid tags from the DMV as a street-legal vehicle.  I heard they closed that loophole now, though, so if you tried to pull that stunt today they'd look at you like you're from Jupiter.

[cmiller493]

Haha!

[Charles Owens]

That is a clean bike! 

[opfermanmotors]

very nice, even got the sticker on the tank.  Looks like it's not going to sell in this economy.  One thing I find F*N HILL F*N LARIOUS is the fact that ppl seem to STRIVE on bikes that say "ALL ORIGINAL, NEVER CHANGED ANYTHING SINCE NEW"  Oh ok, so it needs rebuilt then.  And if someone says "COMPLETELY ENGINE REBUILT" ok, it's junkthen.  for some reason ppl seem to think engines which have been rebuilt are junk when, in a good rebuild, the complete opposite should be the case.

3 years ago someone parts an ALLORIGINAL 1982 Maico 490.  Just sat on the show room floor and was never used.  So, after 30 years of a bike sitting it probably needs rebuilt.  However, it wasn't even sold whole it was sold in parts.  The engine alone went for $4k.  I remember hearing the total sale that guy made was around $8k.

Anyhow, point at hand, a few years ago a 1979 Honda CR250 that was crated, never ran, all original sold for ~$7500 complete.  Sticker was still on tank.  But, whether it be the economy or the fact that someone rebuilt that engine, no one is upping the price beyond $3500.  At least, that I know of since the reserve isn't hit.  Anyhow, just a rant b/c I don't know, it's always seemed the case that if a bike had to be rebuilt it's junk but if you never fix anything on a bike it must be great when really it's likely just being run into the ground.  Ppl seem to eat it up when you put that in your ad.

[JETZcorp]

If someone had put my 120 in an ad and said that it's been ridden a lot but still has the 1967 piston and rings, I'd probably think the thing was a piece of junk with no compression.  But, you wouldn't be able to tell from the ad that she's got more compression than any other bike in the garage.  I think the actual condition an old bike is in, depends on so many things that it's really hard to make assumptions based on anything.  If something's all-original then there's a good chance it's thrashed.  If something's all-rebuilt then there's a good chance that someone did a bad job of it.  The only safe way to go when looking for something to ride, is to take the thing apart and make sure it's right (assuming you know what you're doing yourself).

[opfermanmotors]

Ya, the only way to tell is take it apart yourself.  I just find it funny that the default position is "all original" == great and "rebuilt" == junk it seems when the average joe is looking at bikes on craigslist.

[JETZcorp]

If you're looking for a museum piece I could see that as being the case, like if you want something to be as close as possible to when it rolled off the factory floor in Japan/Germany/Austria/Sweden/etc.  But for something to just take out and ride I can't see any reason why someone would specifically seek out a bike with components that have had more time to accumulate abuse.

[opfermanmotors]

Just do a search on google on craigslist for "original" and some bike.  PPL proudly claim things and these aren't for a muesem these are to ride!  Guarentteed these bikes sell faster than a bike that says was completely rebuilt.  Its just ppl's mentality.

1997 Suzuki RM250Nov 21, 2010 ... 1997 Suzuki RM250 - $1200 (El Cajon) ... All original and stock engine. Never been apart. Reeds,chain,rear sprocket and front fender have ...

NEVER BEEN APART! AWESOME! Proudly, an over 10 year engine!

Nov 26, 2010 ... RM250 SUZUKI....2001 - $1250 (BEAUMONT) ... its life taken out for few rides a year still has original tires , original owner , registered,, ...
orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/2080116483.html

Original TIRES! From 2001!  Awesome!  Crap, if the tires are replaced the bike must be junk!

[JETZcorp]

I think they're trying to imply that the bike hasn't been ridden much.  If you haven't worn out the tires, it would be difficult to wear out anything else.  My dad's 490 still has the little soft rubber spike thingies on the stock tires.  That doesn't mean you'd necessarily want to ride around on the 1981 rubber, because tires don't necessarily stay good through time.  But the tires give the impression that the bike has not accumulated wear, simply because it hasn't been used.  However, if the bike clearly HAS been used a lot, and they're proudly proclaiming to the heavens that no one's even bothered to monitor the components for wear, that's when you're getting into trouble.

It's like collector action figures or something that are still in the package.  It's not necessarily that the package is so precious, but it implies that the item within is in good condition.

[opfermanmotors]

Ya, but these aren't action figures.  There was a TS185 that sat in a basement for years, probably 20 maybe?  It was in my Grandma's basement.  Someone got it and cleaned it up and started riding it.  After a few rides it locked up b/c one of the piston clips broke, came out, and tore up the cylinder (likely was rusted).  Not sure, but it might have had original tires though!

[JETZcorp]

Good point, without a little bit of a workout every once in awhile, there will be some negative effects.  And once again that goes back to the cardinal rule: always take the thing apart and make sure it's good yourself, before going out and potentially breaking something.

The way these clowns at the OEMs are going these days, pretty soon you'll be able to buy a completely unused four-stroke, still in the crate from Japan, and you'll have to take it apart as well because it sat in a warehouse for so long.

[opfermanmotors]

The way these clowns at the OEMs are going these days, pretty soon you'll be able to buy a completely unused four-stroke, still in the crate from Japan, and you'll have to take it apart as well because it sat in a warehouse for so long.

Since when do landfills take engines apart before dumping them in ?

[dogger315]

Both of you pretty much covered the reasons why.  In my experience,there are two
different philosophies when buying vintage MXers, collectors or riders/racers.  Nirvana
for a collector would be the 79 CR250 crate find that was mentioned - an unmolested,
unridden bike that is just as it left the manufacturer.  This is the same mentallity that
permeates the muscle car scene.  By the way, not all museums have the collector
mentallity.  Museums (like the Honda museum in Japan), want the bike to look like it did
the day it rolled off the showroom floor.  Total restoration, as long as it's accurate, is
the name of the game here.  This camp is where the big money is.

The other camp(s) consist of riders/racers.  These are people that want to recapture that
great time from their youth but don't want to spend a bunch doing so.  And the other half
of this group is the vintage racer (which the Elsie in the add is cleary aimed at).  Most of
these folks just want a solid foundation in which to build a racer.  Only a fraction of this
group is interested in buying a "turn key" racer.  So, IMO, this bike has limited appeal.
Combine that with the sh*t economy, and you see the results.  FWIW, I'd buy that Elsie
if I didn't already have one, looks like it would be a blast to ride.

dogger   

[SachsGS]

I really like it when people restore CZ250s in a manner similar to that Elsinore resto.Though CZs are a little porky they are almost unbreakable and handle very well.