New lotus omnivore is coming baby!

[SachsGS]

I think storm clouds "are a brewing" in the great 2s vs. 4s debate. You see ,I read an article recently about how a clean sheet design BMW demolished the competition in a 1000cc sportbike shootout. The combination of state of the art chassis and engine management electronics gave the bavarian machine a decisive advantage, the 180 hp (!) engine had a 20hp advantage over the nearest japanese rival.

That 1000cc BMW engine and a bandsaw would give us a 45+hp,  reliable, 250cc 4s MX'r. All of a sudden BMW's aquisition of Husqvarna makes sense. I think it is safe to say the Germans are coming.

Where does that leave the 2s? First of all I think if you are still holding your breath waiting for the japanese or KTM to bring out something new you will have turned blue and fallen over by now.
Companies,no matter how massive, are defined by finite resources and all of their R&D dollars will be going into further 4s development. 

Mid level companies like Gas Gas (that produce their own engines) are in a bad situation , any move they  make will require resources virtually beyond what they can handle. The solution (I think) lies in the "cottage" industry - where inovation usually takes hold.

In the late 60's and early 70's Fichtel and Sachs high volume manufactured, think "Economy of Scale", 50/80/100 and 125cc 2s engines that were tough and torquey. These engines gave rise to a virtual explosion of cottage manufacturers around the globe, from Allouette in Canada and Rupp in the U.S., Monark in Sweden, Dalesmen and Tyran in the U.K., KTM in Austria, to a "Kazillion" Italion manufacturers such as Ancillotti and SWM. German Sachs powered DKWs beat bikes 3 times their size in the Californian desert.

I think the 2s revival solution may lie right here in Canada. All BRP has to do is , thru. their Austrian subsidiary Rotax, is cast up a set of cases to hold the bits and pieces of what they already produce:clutches/transmissions and powerful,state of the art, emissions freindly Skidoo powerheads.Cases that would allow cottage manufacturers to produce competitive 250/400cc 2s MX's and enduros. Think CCM or even a reborn EMC. I am certain the demand is there to allow an economy of scale that could make it all happen. If BRP would get to work, I think the "little guys" would shake up the sport.

[DangisMX]

Thanks for the info JETZcorp. Really interesting stuff. What a shame though . Maybe someone will pick up this idea and try to do something with it again...

Yamaha might have started the whole four stroke thing, but they still make their YZ bikes. I want one! Yamaha all the way! (My next bike is definitely going to be the YZ )   

[JETZcorp]

Just out of curiosity, is there a particular reason for wanting the YZ in particular?  I don't mean to say the YZ is a bad bike, but I just wonder sometimes if people automatically go Japanese, figuring the big company is going to give them the best bike.  I've heard big things about TM's line-up, and KTM seems to be making good bikes, and I wonder if there's anything in particular that put you toward the YZ, like looks or price or whatever.

[DangisMX]

In Lithuania (where I live) we don't yet have any dealers for TM, Maico, Sherco and all the small companies. Maybe we never will have, it's a small country, small market, not very profitable. I don't fancy on trips to Latvia (neighboring country) to pick up parts. Of course I could order from Ebay or from the shops abroad, but why bother, Yamahas are decent bikes I think, and theres a dealership near by. KX and RM bikes are kind of being manufactured, but not updated at all, so I thought KTM or Yamaha is the best choice that I have. I already had a 150 sx and was very disappointed by the costumer service here as well as part prices! The bike was nice, I liked it, but it broke down far too often. A couple of people told me that they had Yamaha YZs before they switched to 4t bikes, and that they were really reliable. I'm not aiming to be a national champion or anything, so really I care very much about reliability and running costs and not so much about performance, a novice or an intermediate rider couldn't really feel a big difference between a KTM or a Yamaha or any other similar two stroke I think. Even If I could, I wouldn't know how to use it to my advantage yet .

To sum it up, I plan to buy a Yamaha because it's the most acceptable choice for me at the moment. Besides, I think they're kinda cool anyways .

P.S. If I could, I think I would go Maico !!!

[JETZcorp]

Okay, that makes a lot of sense.  And from what I've heard, customer service with KTM isn't only a problem in Lithuania.

[maicoman009]

I totally agree with you JETZcorp about Hondoo!I have in the past placed a large amount of blame on Yamaha for bringing the YZ-400 4 choke out when they did and I still beleive that certainetly did'nt help the 2-stroke situation however I also hate Hondoo for not using that technology when they most definetly should have!As far as Yamaha goes like I've said in a previous post their only saving grace is the fact that they have kept the 125 & 250 2-strokes in their line up but unlike KTM their not making to many if any at all improvements on their 2 stroke line up.So for me the bottom line is I'll stick with my KTM's & only buy the European brands that still beleive in 2-stroke technology.And so far at least for me I have'nt had any problems getting parts for my 2008 KTM but I'm seriously considering buying a 2010 KTM-300xc and from what I've been told & heard from the local shops is that the new KTM's are getting harder to find!

[TMKIWI]

DangiMX: Buy the YZ. If thats the only dealer in your area stick with what you know and you can get parts for.
The Yz engine is well known for having a very usable power band.

Sachs: BRP owns Rotax/Skidoo/Seadoo/Evinrude/Canam.
          Bombardier still makes Trains & Lear Jets.

There is a fair bit of intercompany shareing on products within BRP.
Earlier on Rotax sent engineers over to Evinrude to learn about the DI engines.
You are dead right about the motors being able to be sold to the cottage industry.
To fit the DI system in another product is quite simple from an engineering point of view.
I have quite often thought it would be great to fit a etec injector on my TM.

First i would need to machine up a new cylinder head to fit the injector and move the spark plug of to one side.
Next, modify the carb into a throttle slide and fit a TPS.
Remove the crankshaft and drill passages from mains to big end.
Fit oil feed holes through cases to the crank mains.
Then fit a potentiometer to the power valve shaft to measure power valve position.
Next fit a more powerfull stator to supply the power needed to run the system.
Next just bolt on all the sensors, oil/ fuel pump and you are ready to go !!!.
NOT.
Unfortunatly i am no computer programer.
Thats the problem.
It is actually pretty simple except for the programming.

I know i have simplified thing here but you get my point.

[ford832]

After making a bunch of cars with uninspiring Toyota engines, Lotus has done something absolutely epic.  I like their little robot in the exhaust, too, just because it's bizarre.

So you've become a powervalve affecianado eh jetzcorp?Whoda thunk it?

As for the Yamaha thing.I've always been a euro fan but I've been disappointed by the suspension and niggling engineering details on my last three.No such concerns with the YZ.Besides,it's blue

[DangisMX]

Besides,it's blue

    Exactly

[maicoman009]

Hey Ford,what suspension & niggling engineering details have dissapointed you with your last three Euro brand bikes? or were you talking about your last 3 pair of blue European panties riding your a$$ the wrong way or WHAT???