MZA Test ride 250SX

[ferrahount]

I've just read the test ride report of the KTM 250SX from Motocross Action mag.
This guys are still testing and spreading the word of how good two strokes are.
I now just want to buy this bike, the February issue came to let to write Santa for one of this bikes so I'll have to save every buck to buy one, and I will.
I can't paste the whole article here, but some interesting quotes are:

About the engine "This is a rocket ship! This is the most powerful 250cc motocross bike sold. On the dyno, the 2010 250SX made 49.05 horsepower at 8600 rpm and 30.95 foot pounds of torque at 8100 rpm.
    For comparison purposes, here is how the 2010 KTM 250SX compares to the Honda CRF250, Honda CRF450 and Yamaha YZ250 two-stroke.
    CRF250: The KTM 250SX makes 12.7 horsepower and 11 foot-pounds of torque more than the 2010 CRF250.
    CRF450: The KTM 250SX makes 1.8 horsepower and 1.75 foot-pounds of torque less than the 2010 CRF450.
    YZ250: The KTM 250SX makes 3.5 horsepower and two foot-pounds of torque more than the 2010 YZ250.
    By two-stroke standards, the 250SX has a very smooth, broad and usable powerband."

Final word "The box-stock 2010 KTM 250SX is a fast, lightweight and agile bike. It is surprisingly competitive against 450s and an unfair advantage over 250Fs. It is inexpensive to maintain and simple to work on. If the KTM 250SX doesen't make you rethink the four-stroke revolution, nothing will."

[JETZcorp]

I think I can name one 250 that will make one reconsider the 4T revolution even more than the SX.  Its name starts with M and ends with O.  I'm talking, of course, about the entire bovine 250F line.  Moo!

[kev m]

good 2 see one of the comic books telling it like it is for a change 

[westsiderippa]

"It is surprisingly competitive against 450s and an unfair advantage over 250Fs. "

i know this statement is true but i dont think it helps our cause. im just saying.....

it should read, "450s still have an unfair advantage but its surprisingly competitive against the 250fs"

with statements like that being made we will never see the big 4 letting 2t, let alone the sx in a pro class. just my thoughts.

[JohnN]

westsiderippa - That is exactly what we have to work on!!

While it's fun to tease and make fun of the racers that have either converted to or grown up racing four-strokes... it's this continuous banter in the mainstream media that has them convinced that four-strokes are superior.

The true goal of this site has been to reverse this negative "programming" by the media and others. I know it's not a popular sentiment, but no truer words have been said;

    Honey gets more flyes to it, than doth viniger.
    [1666 G. Torriano Italian Proverbs 149]

    Tart Words make no Friends: spoonful of honey will catch more flies than Gallon of Vinegar.
    [1744 B. Franklin Poor Richard's Almanack (Mar.)]

These guys are not so much our "enemies" as just convinced by all the media and hype that they are right.  To help these folks we need to be kind to them, and help them to see what we have been saying and talking about for many years.... try both in a fair environment and them make up your own mind.

This will do more to help our quest than any badgering, name calling or put downs.....

Think about it....

[westsiderippa]

i agree, i guess if the truth can be told to the consumer it wont matter what the manufacture thinks they will build bikes that people(the majority) want. so now that i look at that statement again, "has an unfair advantage over the 250f" i guess its publicity like that is what we need to get these kids thinking in that right direction. all i know is I hate politics.

[TotalNZ]

Now don't get me wrong, i'm 2t forever but in the real world just about everyone's faster around any given track on a 250f (myself included). i just can't stand the electric boring feel of the 250f's but thats what makes them fast.
Here in NZ all the 250's race together because the lap times are very similar between 2 and 4 and apparently the latest (2010) 250f's are a step up again. I guess what i'm saying is that young guys ride fourstrokes cause they want the best shot at winning and probably don't have the necessary skills to keep a 2t on the pipe.
I've got a 300 so i race against 450's and straight up the new injected one's are fast! My bikes just as fast but not as tractable, so you've gotta work harder to go as fast, a 450 can just stay in 3rd and torque out of corners while i'm up and down gears constantly. Personally that challenge of staying up on the bike and being aggressive and attacking is what i love but it's hard work compared to a four stroke.
In saying all that though i'll never by a four stroke i'm 2t through and through, just adding some perspective.

[Recovered]

Are the tracks in NZ groomed and plotted for 4T's? There is now way a correctly tuned 2T should have similar lap times than a 4T. Plus, you should be less fatigued at the end of a moto or ride on a 2T. That's how I see it, and I can ride my 500 FASTER and LONGER before I get tired than I can any 250. Especially in tight, twisty stuff.

[TotalNZ]

Are the tracks in NZ groomed and plotted for 4T's? There is now way a correctly tuned 2T should have similar lap times than a 4T. Plus, you should be less fatigued at the end of a moto or ride on a 2T. That's how I see it, and I can ride my 500 FASTER and LONGER before I get tired than I can any 250. Especially in tight, twisty stuff.

What grade are you racing in and have you done timed laps on both your bikes?

[JETZcorp]

I think people that get tired out by 500s are approaching it the wrong way.  I think they're coming out of a corner on the pipe and hammering the throttle to the balls and letting the bike intimidate them.  Hell, unless you're very very good, a 500 on the pipe will intimidate just about anyone.  The advantage to the 500 is the ability to match the performance of a 250 with less effort.  Instead of shifting and clutching and coming hard on the throttle, you can afford to roll it onto 1/3 throttle in 3rd and expect to pull hard and clean.  And, according to the wisdom of an earlier time when the Open 2T was king, that was the fastest way to go.  Even with a 390 Husky, which one would presume to be less demanding than a 500, Cycle Guide was able to say the following:

Of course, that was a European bike with European power delivery, which is dramatically less pipey than a Japanese model.  When a 1991 CR500 was tested against a 1981 Maico 490, the testers found the 490 to be far easier to control with its smooth (not to be confused with flat) power delivery compared to the CR500's "Big Bang."

That's my two cents on the big bikes.  I should note that I haven't actually done any serious riding on an open-classer, and am going of magazine tests and my dad's 40+ years of experience riding bikes, which is mostly non-track riding on European machines.

[2smoker]

Anyways, I raced my 250cc 2 stroke against the 450's and let me tell you that is twice the work at a racing pace.. 4 stroke have that grunt/torque  power delivery than a 2 stroke would never have.. No mistakes are allowed.. The biggest advantage of the 2 stroke is the weight and flickability. And also.. 4 stroke are really good at making deep ruts like no tomorrow... it's unbelievable!

[JETZcorp]

Have you ever ridden next to someone on a 1986 Maico 500?  It feels like he's got a 426 Hemi between the footpegs.  One starts to think that it's an engine tuned entirely for low-end; that it really can't rev out.  It's easy to think of the bike as a torque monster with the character of a 450F.  The only reason it's possible to think this is the fact that it doesn't NEED to rev to keep up with just about anything you can buy.  I got to see what happened once when he gave it the berries on the beast, and it was unbelievable.  The big, lumbering torquey engine seemed to be replaced with a blown dragster on Nitromethane.

The moral of the story is, it's very easy to underestimate the two-stroke's ability to produce low-end power.  They've been characterized over the last few years by the traits found in the Japanese 125s and 250s with most of the power coming through a [relatively] narrow rev range.  I think that's just because they're trying to get that big horsepower number to move units out the door.  If you want a two-stroke with some proper torque, you can get it.  But, unlike a 4T that will deliver you with a similar low-end grunt (at about the same displacement), the 2T will continue to deliver more and more until you've had enough.  You think a 4T can make a deep rut?  Let's fire up a KTM 495 and inspect the damage done after a 3rd gear start.

[Recovered]

Anyways, I raced my 250cc 2 stroke against the 450's and let me tell you that is twice the work at a racing pace.. 4 stroke have that grunt/torque power delivery than a 2 stroke would never have.. No mistakes are allowed.. The biggest advantage of the 2 stroke is the weight and flickability. And also.. 4 stroke are really good at making deep ruts like no tomorrow... it's unbelievable!

How can you say the 4T has more grunt/torque? It has 80% MORE displacement! No wonder it has more torque. It's not because it is technologically superior. It's just flat bigger. 250F'S get 100% and it's like people wonder why they are easier to ride. So, my suggestion to you is this: spend about 40-60 hours on a 500 2T.  Learn how to ride it. You will be less fatigued (I know, that right there goes against conventional wisdom, but it's still true) and SHOULD be able to ride faster on it. Bu YOU need to adapt to IT. It doesn't work the other way around. If you don't have the ability to procure a European 500, you can almost duplicate it with a KX 500 (it's a little tougher with the CR because it lacks a power valve). Put a pipe on it, dual stage reeds and the biggest flywheel weight you can buy. Spend the rest of your money LEARNING  to ride it. Then you will see what an unbelievable ruts looks like. Plus, the roost will keep everyone WAAAAAY behind you. 

[losec]

Anyways, I raced my 250cc 2 stroke against the 450's and let me tell you that is twice the work at a racing pace.. 4 stroke have that grunt/torque power delivery than a 2 stroke would never have.. No mistakes are allowed.. The biggest advantage of the 2 stroke is the weight and flickability. And also.. 4 stroke are really good at making deep ruts like no tomorrow... it's unbelievable!

How can you say the 4T has more grunt/torque? It has 80% MORE displacement! No wonder it has more torque. It's not because it is technologically superior. It's just flat bigger. 250F'S get 100% and it's like people wonder why they are easier to ride. So, my suggestion to you is this: spend about 40-60 hours on a 500 2T.  Learn how to ride it. You will be less fatigued (I know, that right there goes against conventional wisdom, but it's still true) and SHOULD be able to ride faster on it. Bu YOU need to adapt to IT. It doesn't work the other way around. If you don't have the ability to procure a European 500, you can almost duplicate it with a KX 500 (it's a little tougher with the CR because it lacks a power valve). Put a pipe on it, dual stage reeds and the biggest flywheel weight you can buy. Spend the rest of your money LEARNING  to ride it. Then you will see what an unbelievable ruts looks like. Plus, the roost will keep everyone WAAAAAY behind you. 

what he said

[2smoker]

not talking about the damn big bore! lol We cannot race them anymore! Real world racing.. not some casual/week-end stuff. I know about the double displacement difference... 4 stroke learning curve is faster and they are easier to ride on the long run... Less clutching, you don't have to stay on the pipe,you can be lazy, the power delivery is like electrical with no feelings/surprises. yeah guys get over it! 4 stroke have a bit more advantages than the double displacement..They can make an average rider shine!