2t vs 4t Debate Thumpertalk

[Shawn36]

I agree. There are strong vocal personalities who issue bad propaganda about the equal displacments - Davey Coombs. If he was neutralized, then it might have a chance. For some reason, everyone hangs on what he says, and is affraid to make him mad. And of course, he's affraid to make the Japs mad. The cc for cc change would be the easiest change in the world to make for the AMA, but they're polarized by the thought of Marvin Musquin showing up and beating everyone so badly on a KTM 250SX, that they won't even consider it (these are the words out of DC's mouth).

I usually stay quiet about mis-information in this place but really?  If DC was "neutralized"?  The guy who is the reason you can run 250 vs 250F at Loretta's, the guy who's bringing a 125 class to be between the motos entertainment in the nationals.. if you silenced THAT guy suddenly we'd have 250s in the Lites class huh?  

DC and the AMA have said on many occasions they put the vote up to the OEMs.  Not even the ones who still made and sold 2-strokes (including KTM) wanted 250 vs 250F.  How does getting rid of DC solve that problem in any way?  

[MyckMcClung]

"DC and the AMA have said on many occasions they put the vote up to the OEMs."

That's the problem, the AMA gives the manufacturers the upper hand, because they are the ones supporting the televised series competitions. AMA Pro Racing.
AMA stands for American Motorcyclists Association and last time I checked, America was still a democracy. But here we are, the grass roots of motorcycle racing, screwing the pooch, because four Japanese manufacturers are pissing in our drinking water.
The longer this crap plays out the more I consider putting a  1% sticker on my two stroke. Not that I'm an evil biker but because the AMA doesn't give a shit about my opinion, or it's grassroots racing members. I can't believe that they don't see the membership numbers plummeting, or the race turn outs dwindling, in the ameture ranks. Their vision is clouded by the Japanese money, and big rigs. When the truth is that there are 500 times as many pick up trucks & vans with trailers driven by AMA members that pay thier dues to support an association that is screw thier own future,

[miedosoracing]

One thing you guys need to remember, or learn, not sure which. AMA and ProAMA are not the same thing.  AMA has rules of 250cc and open already.  ProAMA which is now owned by a seperate entity are who runs the stupid rules. DC has had the hand in GNCC, AMA and LL being cc for cc.  So that I will defend him.  I also know the only reason the Pro's don't run the cc for cc rules, is because DC's hands are tied along with people like Roger etc.  It all comes down to money and the OEM's running the show with money to make the rules they want in ProAMA.  That is why I've said the pro thing is futile.  We need to get the magazines to start running shootouts.  When the KTM 250SX is beating everyone elses 4 stroke including theirs. Other OEM's will have to start thinking about making them, and thinking about the rules. Because how will it look for a KTM250SX beating everyone in shootouts, and then when people go to MX/ SX races, there isn't any of them on the track?  Only the slower bikes are on the Pro track. WTF? they will ask. One more thing to imagine. What if the shootout had TM's, Maicos, Husky's etc.  What if then, the big four, were the losing 4. Just sayin.  Magazines are where we need to put pressure.

[bearorso]

 I've written here a few times before, I don't believe DC is the obstacle. His comment about 250 2t VS 250 4T being unfair, I believe, was a jibe at those who did not want it - the 4 Japanese manufacturers. And, I believe his view that he / the industry needs to concentrate on the 'lead issue', that could destroy motorcycle sport, by denying entry to our sport to young people - the ones we need if we are to have a market that manufacturers will cater to. No new riders, if which a few will select it as their 'Life Sport', no new people to sell bikes to.

We baby boomers and 70s bike boom riders,who still form the major part of the market, will die out , eventually.

I remember the quoted example of Tommy Searle  (or any KTM signed Pro, basically) being the feared thing by manufacturers, and KTM being willing to sign legal documents saying they would not put one of their Pros on a SX. Sounds like this is being re-hashed, re-rider labelled by someone.

DC runs/ owns the company that has the contract to run the nationals, from the Daytona, DMG(?) group. If he were to push things through, it would be easy for the manufacturers (they've had enough of the 'bums rush' given to them by DMG in Road Racing - they'd happily rebel against DMG) to get rid of him, and, God help us if DMG itself runs MX, or Youthstream get a hold on the US.

And, as I've also written before, our best examples of the BS of manufacturers saying it would be 'unfair' ( well, in reality, a marketing disaster for them) is where equivalency has been granted. It hasn't resulted in the 4ts being destroyed, it makes the argument look foolish from those that use that arguement to oppose it. That's how it, equivalency,  will eventually be brought into the major Pro racing series. I don't believe it takes more skill to ride a 2t ( arguing with The Man, I here you thinking), just a Different set of skills. That, once the highly skilled youngsters, who get the rides from the Pro teams, get off of 85s and 2t Superminis,  change to working with the all prevalent 4t, loose. There's infinitely more support, through all industry levels, for 4t rides. Combine that with the loss of 2t riding skill sets, and it not hard to see how most of the Pro / Paid riders who go back to a 2t, generally go straight  back to 4ts. They need the support, and those who can / will supoort them, run 4t teams. The drongos who cite this as how 2ts aren't good enough, riders return to 4ts (whilst still opposing equivalency - how do you say, 'selective vision?"), so why bother?, make gooses of themselves time and time again.