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Offline TMKIWI

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Modern Bikes
« on: April 09, 2010, 06:05:17 PM »
Hi everyone. Great site with lots of like minded people sharing their thoughts on smokers.
Whats your favorite 3 MODERN Bikes ?
I would like to try something novel in this post. I will post a chocolate fish out to every reply until someone mentions either Maico , 1983 , 490 or 440. I will then chew off my right wrist so i can't type or ride anymore.
They may have been great bikes in their day but i was still learning to ride a CR80 and watching M*A*S*H on TV.
Here are my favorites.
1: 2007 TM300. Steel frame and Ohlins. Great combination. Complete with adjustable power valve.
2: 06-08 YZ250. Just a great allrounder.
3: 06-08 RM250. Great handling. Just sold mine for TM.

DSC01361.jpg
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 06:20:55 PM »
Can I say that famous German dirtbike built the year before 1984? Come on now,you're talking about a lifetime addiction here!

Offline JohnN

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 06:41:04 PM »
Yippee... new bikes!! I love it!

Well first on my list is;

Which is the 2010 TM125 MX - this is the closest thing to a works bike that you can buy for a resonable amount of money.

Next is the 2009-2010 YZ250 - for obvious reasons!


Then the 2010 KTM150 SX... nice machine and capable of beating the 250F's... for those areas of the world where the rules don't allow 250 vs. 250.
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Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2010, 12:27:38 AM »









These are my bikes
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 12:29:27 AM by opfermanmotors »
Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline Turquine

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2010, 03:17:11 AM »
Well, that's not really all that easy for me to do, to pick a "modern" 2stroke favorite. Gonna have to disappoint you. Problem is, the bikes I like are open class, 500 or better, and they must be a 2stroke. 250s are fun, but just toys. The areas I used to ride had lots of wide open fire roads and a 250 or 300 is too slow. Gear it up high and then it hurts acceleration too much, and you'll get eaten by big thumpers through the gears. No, I need a 2stoke that I can up-gear enough to do a 100 or slightly better, that will still out accelerate a new KTM 520, or any 450 motocross thumper, through the gears for the tighter stuff. One that will be able to conquer very large sand dune type hills and yet not get left behind on the fire roads through the gears, or due to having a low top speed. In my book, no 250 or 300 2stoke made, can do that. If I'm wrong, please let me know, but give evidence. Best I can do with your parameters here, and the type of riding I like, is to say a KX500AF, but that's still an older motor. It will do the trick though because the KX has enough power to do just that. Stock though, it only does about 86 mph though, and even the new 450 thumpers can top that.

Here's an unfortunate video proving that assertion, with a side by side comparison between a fairly new Honda CRF450 and KX500, top speed and acceleration.

kx500 vs crf450kx500 simard vs xr650 tilouis 2009

Offline JohnN

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2010, 06:17:04 AM »
Hello Tuquine... welcome to the board... that is one long post.

One thing I want to point out to you along with some of the other folks is to read the name at the top of this page... it does say motocross, right??

I understand that there are fans that like other stuff, like trail riding, desert racing, Supermoto and all the other disciplines of motorcycling, but this site is dedicated to two-stroke motocross. Just wanted to point that out.  ;D ;D

All that said, I can appreciate your concerns for riding at top speeds that a 250 or 300 two-stroke not having the same top speed as the open class four-stroke... it's kind of obvious! It's bigger!!! If an equal displacement two-stroke is geared properly, no four-stroke will touch it, on or off road. The only reason this comparison exists at all is because of rules in motocross trickled down to every one from trail riders to desert racers. It's not a fair comparison and yet most believe it is. The power of marketing.

Here is a video of a Maico 700 vs. a 450F...
Maico 700 first ride- Tachyon xc cam

It speaks for itself!

On to some of your other questions... the new Maicos are still being sorted out for import to the USA. An official Press Release has not been sent out yet, because there are legal issues that must be taken care of before you can import machines to the states. From my understanding they are very close to having this done.

Once the machines are here, we at this site will be testing them as mentioned in another thread. Personally I don't like the idea of having a magazine test the bike. Why? The magazines have a bias, most folks that work for magazines are given new bikes every year by big manufacturers, why would they give a good review on an off-brand machine?

Quick story, I have spoken to several off-brand distributors that have been at the tests the magazines have done. The riders will talk about how much they like the machine, but when the article comes out it's a different story. Even after everyone was clamoring to ride the bike!! It's hard to publish in your magazine that a off-brand machine is better than the bikes from the manufacturers that help you on a weekly basis.

Besides, I'd rather hear what regular racers/riders have to say, folks that are not associated with any manufacturer, but hey that's just me!

As for part 3 of the long term Maico test, the author of that article was a member of the site and we mutually decided to part ways. He still has been planning to finish the article and send it to the site... when he does it will be published. I'm waiting too!

Since you have a love for top speed two-strokes, check out this article,
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/worlds-fastest-mx-bike-kawasaki-kx500/
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Offline Turquine

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2010, 11:09:59 PM »
Well, John, I guess I should apologize. Didn't mean to come off disrespecting this site, nor the sport of motocross. I love this site and check it daily!!! I really appreciate what you're doing and the sport needs it. I was letting my personal frustrations take over a bit. The fact is, pound for pound, I think the new KTM 250SX is one of the finest machines made, motorwise anyhow. The most powerful stock 250 motor ever made, to my knowledge, and well above all the others. I also think the new 2stroke YZ 250s are just fantastic machines and maybe better overall than the KTM though a bit down on HP. Fact is, 250 motors are far better built than the old 500 motors. Yet, they are still very reliable, and not so stressed out that they break al the time. For several years I've wished they'd make a 500 2stroke motor like the 2stroke MX 250s for off-road use. Anyhow, I don't despise smaller bikes at all. The KTM 300 is probably the best all-around machine ever made. I've just been frustrated for a long time because they're just not building bikes like I preferred to ride any more. First they quit racing open-class in America, then a few years later, they quit building open-class 2stroke machines. They hadn't been improving the engines on them for about a decade before they quit making them anyhow, unlike the 125s and 250s. The tracks they designed in the US, favored smaller displacement bikes often, as well, just as many of them today are designed to favor thumpers. I'd want a track for open classers with longer straights, smaller bumps, at least one nasty uphill that say a 125 would be lucky to climb if at all. Something with long enough straights to where the 2strokes  could hook up and catch and pass the thumpers since thumpers usually get so much better traction at the start. Either that or I'd have much wider rear tires with big wide center knobs to help alleviate the problem. Oh well, one can dream, can he not?

I know this is a motocross site and perhaps this was the wrong place to post. Thing is, although I've owned enduros before, like the IT, most of us wanted MX bikes even if they never saw a track, simply because the motors had more power and better performance. At the time I wanted the '85 CR500 but couldn't quite swing it financially, so I got the '82 IT465. This was especially true in the '70s, enduros were mostly junk. They have gotten much better, but in general, are less powerful, being better suited for eastern forests than western deserts. Take the KTM 150SX and the KTM 200 enduro. The 150 is going to be more powerful even though smaller. Just an example. Anyhow, when I think of a motocrosser, I think of an off-road machine, just naturally. I do wish they built more bikes specifically for the wide open deserts of the west, but the buyers are forced to pick either a motocrosser or enduro, and set it up from there. Naturally, we would hope that such bikes will be capable of being set up to do such things without costing an arm and a leg. In the past, a morocross bike usually fits that bill better than any other, due to power. I shouldn't have dissed the MXers here though and I'm sorry. Truth is, I never had the skill to ride well that way even had I wanted. One of my brothers had a 1979 RM250 with the old Fox air shocks on it and of course, he'd blow me away on my IT 465 around the local track at the time. By the time I would have passed him on a straight, it was time to turn and neither me or my bike cared for that very much, and I ate a lot of dirt, lol. Funny thing, my other brother had an RM400, 1978. So did my cousin. My brother got frustrated with it on that track and traded it in for either a .'79 or '80 Kawasaki KX 125. I thought he was totally bonkers for doing that. In it's day, the '78 RM 400 was a nice machine and really nice off-road. Around that track though, he was much faster on the 125 than my cousin was on his RM 400. Even swapping bikes the 125 always won. Simply too tight of a track to take advantage of the bigger bike's power.

That Maico vid you put up was great, I'd sure like to see more of that machine, what a beauty! I didn't get the impression he was really ringing it out much, perhaps he was breaking it in. Even so, made me drool a bit. I'm pretty sure the new Maicos from the 500 up would out-pull  a CR or KX 500, just wish somebody would test that and put them on dynos. I know, you can't trust today's magazines, but I'd believe it even if the Maico folks themselves did the test. My gut tells me that the new Maico open classers are probably the best open bikes ever built, power wise, just wish I could see it proven. I had indeed seen the world's fastest bike article, wasn't surprised that it would be the venerable KX. (Let's see any 450 thumper try that, no way!) Think about how cool it would be though, if somebody tried that same setup on the big new Maicos! That, I'd love to see. We never rode that fast, nor wanted to gear the bikes anywhere near that high, but I figured a 100 - 110 mph tops was nice to have available when you needed it. So-Cal riders probably understand this well. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it, in the desert anyhow. Wish they'd build 500 2strokes with 6 or 7 speeds. I believe Husqvarna put out a 7 speed desert bike in the '60s, correct me if I'm wrong. Up-gearing is always a compromise, but, oh well, dreaming again I guess, until desert racing gets a lot more popular and lucrative than it currently is. For now, one has got to use a motocrosser and up-gear.

Below is a picture of one of the areas I used to ride before I was disabled. It's a volcanic crater in Donna Ana county New Mexico called Kilbourne Hole, near Mt. Riley and the East Potrillo range, not too far from El Paso, Texas. If you look close you can see some of the roads around it which stretch out fairly straight for miles. Plenty of room to get a bit bored with 85 mph. Speaking of that, I'm sure I've bored you folks long enough. I love your site here John, it's sorely needed. If I offended anyone in my previous post, I'm sorry, we're all on the same side! May 2strokes once again rule enduros, moto and supercross, as well as in the desert!! Hats off to all who choose to ride a 2stroke of any displacement over a thumper, regardless of riding preference.


Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2010, 12:42:13 AM »
You should check out my site Maicowerk.  I have magazine tests on the new Maicos (not 2010, but mid-2000s), but I believe them to be quite bias. 

You may be interested in this unbais Maico on Maico test, I have several of them the late Randall Owens did.  This pits the newer Maicos (10 yrs ago) against the older Maicos:

1999 Test


Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2010, 02:25:49 PM »
Nice picks John. I resently sold a 02 KTM 200. Man that thing could corner and it had a surprising amount of power.(I rebuilt the motor to factory specs).I would love to try a new 150Sx sounds like a fun bike.
I dont race (Too old) but love the sport.
The problem with the old open class bikes Turquine is that they would have problems keeping up with the new smaller bikes around tighter tracks.
For desert racing that you like the big bores are the way to go but not so good on a track.

My post was meant for motox bikes. I know the TM300 is not classified as a motox bike but it is my new toy and if the rules were changed to 250cc+ 2 or 4 stroke class it would make a competitive bike.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2010, 05:05:43 PM »
A couple of years ago a friend of mine was part of a team that raced down in Baja and they won the 60+ category.Their times would have placed them in the top three in the 40+ category.At the time my friend was 67.

Offline graham472

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2010, 06:22:32 PM »
                            1. 2008 KTM144SX; absolute blast
                            2. 2001 RM125; mates bike, had the best suspension (re valved) of any bike I've ridden. If Suzuki had brought out a 144 I would be riding one of them
                            3. One of my RM250's, I'd say 2001 model, flogged that bike and it never let me down

Offline Hondacrrider

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2010, 06:44:56 PM »
2003, rm 125 with pro circuit pipe and silencer
I'd rather be riding...

Offline Turquine

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2010, 09:06:17 PM »
Thanks, Opferman, for posting the 1999 Maico test. Very informative and also reminded me of why I like the '83 Sand Spider so much as well. Also enjoyed going through some of your web site, some very interesting material there.  TM, I do agree with you on the older 500s and MX tracks as they are currently designed, one is indeed better off on a smaller displacement 2stroke. I'd design MX tracks a bit differently, however, as I mentioned in my previous post. Unfortunately, for some odd reason, the AMA has not consulted me on designing MX tracks,   :)

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2010, 09:16:38 PM »
Hi Turquine. I dont think the AMA has consulted with anyone who has an interest with racing!!!

I do like the new KX500AF and would love a ride but the riding i do it would be too much a handfull.
I find the 300 about right.
With my RM250 I found I was getting left on long hill climbs but with the 300 I havn't had a 450 pass me yet.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline TotalNZ

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Re: Modern Bikes
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2010, 02:24:11 AM »
Nice picks John. I resently sold a 02 KTM 200. Man that thing could corner and it had a surprising amount of power.(I rebuilt the motor to factory specs).I would love to try a new 150Sx sounds like a fun bike.
I dont race (Too old) but love the sport.
The problem with the old open class bikes Turquine is that they would have problems keeping up with the new smaller bikes around tighter tracks.
For desert racing that you like the big bores are the way to go but not so good on a track.

My post was meant for motox bikes. I know the TM300 is not classified as a motox bike but it is my new toy and if the rules were changed to 250cc+ 2 or 4 stroke class it would make a competitive bike.

I have a TM300MX definately a MX bike