Okay, here's some of DCs comments. I didn't bother to put all of my replies, since they were pretty broad at times, and sometimes argumentative, But I will say, that DC is pretty tempermental and gets offended easily over some of the smallest things:
DC - Mark, Here's the problem I have with what you're doing: While I appreciate the effort, you are trying to make a top-down fix at the AMA Pro Supercross/Motocross level that no one who actually participates in the respective series wants. That's why I wrote that -- you want them to make all these changes so it will trickle down and have a cost-saving effect on you, but they don't want to throw out all of the investment, technology and equipment they already have, or race against bikes they don't even make anymore. So it's a non-starter for a guy who doesn't even participate in the series, or all of the people who sign the petition, to demand a change in a professional tour. If the motorcycle industry wants to change the products they make, they will -- I don't make bikes, I can only buy the ones that I want and that they offer.
Also, no one wants a different rulebook between AMA Supercross and AMA Motocross, and SX has zero interest in going back to two-strokes. Why? I have no idea. But everyone is piling this on me, and you've taken to insulting me and insinuating that I have something against two-strokes, but I ride a KTM 125 SX and a KTM 200 EXC, and I tried years ago to get the CC limits up, I just didn't do it online with a petition. It was a lesson in frustration, and to now get hammered by someone like you who doesn't even know what I tried to accomplish just adds to that frustration with the whole exercise.
I totally understand wanting to bring to get two-strokes back in the market-place, but let me ask you this: What have you done to help stop the CPSIA ban on minicycles for kids under 12? That's the biggest threat to two-strokes in the world right now, but I don't hear or see much about that on your threads or your petition. I have been back and forth to Washington DC more times than I can count, putting on a suit and marching up and down the Capitol steps, for the sake of saving this last large market for two-strokes. I have attached a rough draft of my column that explains a little more of what the real threat is there (please do not post or share as its only a rough and has not gone to print).
The high costs of racing sucks, but so does the high cost of boating, the high cost of gasoline for your car, the high cost airplane travel.... Nothing in the world is cheap anymore, it's just the world we live in right now. Making professional teams change everything and hoping that in turn will force the OEMs to go back to two-strokes is putting the onus on the riders, teams and the series. It's not something I agree with, nor do I think it will work.
DC
Me - Davey, Most people that I've talked to (within the industry) have instantly saw this as a rational and common sense idea; not a radical change to try and fix the whole arena. In fact, I think you're the only person who has actually shown a real fear of this small proposal change.
This should only be viewed as a benefit and only proposed as that, not as a heavy restraint for the companies, riders, and everyone in the series to conform to, or else. While it may be a tough sale to Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki, it is also possible that they won't view it as anything affecting them. Most of them won't see the displacement as a factor anyway, since it is small at best. I have provided horsepower figures and charts and graphs that prove this will only give the 2-stroke a hint of parity with the 4-strokes. In no way will this give 2-strokes and advantage or give one company a major advantage in racing. Even though KTM and Yamaha make 2-strokes, they will still be down 100cc to the 250F and 200cc to the 450F. We both know that the factory 250Fs (Geico and Pro Circuit) 450Fs make way more horsepower than a privateer version. How many of the companies felt threatened when DV mentioned that he was bringing over Cedric Soubeyras to ride a 2-stroke? None. How many would be threatened if he was on a YZ 265 or 275? How many would be threatened if Ken Rocsen showed up on a YZ125? None What about a YZ134? None. Is 25cc and 50cc too much? Then what about 10cc and 25cc?
As for the CPSIA and I'm still reading up on this and deciding how to tackle it. This is something we may have to get a plan of attack on, along with the SVIA.
I haven't heard of a different rulebook for MX and SX.
Finally, my desire is to try and work with the AMA because I believe the AMA needs to be supported instead of attacked. I will try to be as honest as I can with you, regardless of disagreements. I also think this rule change will work and could be a positive change for racers and the AMA.
Thanks,
Mark Slate
PS, I didn't get the attachment.
DC - I attached the column again. I have absolutely no problem with tweaking the CC limit, but it has to be across the board -- AMA, SX and FIM. If someone gets it to a vote, I will be the first guy to vote for it.
This is the first time I've ever even mentioned the CC tweak to you or on the message board that I recall. It's always been about 250cc two-strokes racing 250cc four-strokes, and that debate becomes so hostile I just drop out Mark. It's not worth all the hatred that gets pushed my way because I can't change everyone else's mind.
Thanks for the follow-up, and please read the attachment, though the stay of execution was pushed back to September, though it's still there.
DC
Me - I was out of the office yesterday. The column's is a little slanted, but sounds fine. I would change some of the words if it was me, but oh well. Can you tell what the tone of the CPSC is regarding Rehberg's bill? I'm a little green at this, but I wonder if an urgent petition to the them with support of Rehberg's bill would help. I'm still reading up and I am also planning to contact my local US Rep here in Louisiana to find some pro-active approaches. Are you going to put your article on RacerX? I know its a rough draft, but with your okay, I would like to begin using it (slightly edited of course) to rally people in some other areas. I'm committed to doing as much as I can on this.
As for the cc tweak, I think we should seriously consider the original proposal, which is raising the 125 up 25cc and the 250 up 50cc. All my research and proposals are geared toward these displacements and the se figures are easily doable with today's production bikes. Most importantly, how do we get this to a vote, and who will be voting?
DC - That was a rough draft, and there has since been a stay granted, but only six ore months. The CPSC doesn't want to have to do all of this enforcement testing because they know the law is written far too broadly to actually police, but it's also hard to get anything done in congress right now. The tone is not bi-partisan enough.
As for the CC changes, send your proposal and your petition to the AMA, care of Kevin Crowther, and he will have to take it to AMA Supercross and the AMA Board of Directors. If they feel it's worthy of a vote, they will bring it to a vote.
I can tell you the AMA has a deep fear of "sleeving" and opening pandora's box to under-the-hood changes from what the OEMs offer. It goes back to its roots in dirt track racing, I guess.
DC Here is the board of directors that was on
www.americanmotorcyclist.com:
Stan Simpson, Chairman
Contact
P.O. Box 866
413 FM 1103
Cibolo, TX 78108
South Central Region
Term expires February 2012
Jim Williams, Vice Chairman
Contact
9950 Jeronimo Rd.
Irvine, CA 92618-2084
Kawasaki Motors Corp., USA
Term expires February 2013
Perry King, Assistant Secretary
Contact
c/o AMA
13515 Yarmouth Dr.
Pickerington, OH 43147
Northwest Region
Term expires February 2013
Jon-Erik Burleson, Assistant Treasurer
Contact
38429 Innovation Ct.
Murrietta, CA 92563
KTM North America
Term expires February 2012
John Ulrich, Member, Executive Committee
Contact
581-C Birch St.
Lake Elsinore, CA 92530
Roadracing World Publishing, Inc.
Term expires February 2012
Dwight Conant
Contact
At-Large Member
P.O. Box 54
Kearsarge, NH 03847
Term expires February 2014
Andy Goldfine
Contact
8 S. 18th Ave., West
Duluth, MN 55806
Aerostich/Riderwearhouse
Term expires February 2011
Charles Goman
Contact
644 Dee Kennedy Rd.
Winder, GA 30680
Southeast Region
Term expires February 2012
Maggie McNally
Contact
P.O. Box 2188
Empire State Plaza
Albany, NY 12220-0188
Northeast Region
Term expires February 2011
Scott Miller
Contact
P.O. Box 653
Milwaukee, WI 53201
Harley-Davidson Motor Co.
Term expires February 2013
Arthur More
Contact
16153 Starlight Dr.
Surprise, AZ 85374
Southwest Region
Term expires February 2011
Jim Viverito
Contact
3555 N. Normandy Avenue
Chicago, IL 60634
North Central Region
Term expires February 2013
Do ya'll know any of these guys? Any info would be helpful.
That's pretty much it. I think DC is more trying to deflect this whole thing away from himself, but we'll see.
Thanks for the help and support!
