What to Say?

[JETZcorp]

Alright, here's the deal.

As some of you may know, I'm writing a big paper on two- versus four-stroke engines for English this year.  On the section about costs, I was going to cite Super Hunky's thing about $3500 rebuilds and lasting only 30 hours and all that.  Unfortunately, 'Hunk's only ever said any of this on websites, such as TSM and SuperHunky.com, and websites are off-limits for citing in this project (yeah, that sucks.)  So, I figured I'd just re-create his results by calling up some dealers myself.  Problem is, that requires I describe to them the nature of the problem with "my bike," and I honestly don't know jack about what a blown-up four-stroke would look like.  Hell, I don't even know what a blown-up anything would look like; no one in my family's ever had a bike that needed to be "rebuilt."

So that's where you guys come in.  What do I say to these clowns about the new CRF I just "bought," and the mess I "found" when I "opened it up."

[SwapperMX]

A classic that I have heard several times - " The kickstarter is locked solid, and I cant turn the motor over" That is always a good one. Usually followed by, "I was just riding along and the bike just stopped"

[JohnN]

Hey Jetzcorp.... here's a silly suggestion... e-mail Super Hunky and explain what you are doing. He is a very gracious guy and will probably answer your questions.

Not only that but he may even publish your paper on his web site when it's done!!

His e-mail is on his web site.

[JETZcorp]

Alright, I decided to eMail Rick directly as an interview source (which is allowed), and got a reply from Mike Cuddy, the guy who's writing a large bulk of the items on his site these days.  I got a pretty juicy bit of information from this.  Apparently, before the direct-injection two-stroke technology hit outboards and such, Ford tried to stick one in an Escort and make an assault on rally racing with it.  In the early '80s!  Using a sealed crank-case bottom-end like a four-stroke, a solenoid/injector, variable exhaust port, and a supercharger, they managed to get 300 horsepower out of just 1,500cc and 90-some lbs.  As the story goes, everyone else in the WRC went nuts and quickly had this "cheating" technology banned outright.  At this point, Ford sold the design to GM, who promptly put it on a shelf, never to be heard of again.  Although, I do seem to recall reading (on this site!) about some three-cylinder two-stroke from GM which they touted as the most fuel-efficient motor they could come up with.  So there we go, that means all of the Big Three have experimented with DI two-strokes.  And the Japanese automakers... well...

Anyway, the reply didn't actually include anything about the rebuild costs and such, so unless I get that in a "cite-able" form fairly soon, I may have to just go ahead and do the calls.  There's also some other, really basic info that I need (such as, the difference between a 2T and 4T and the history of them in motocross) that I need a "reliable" source for.  Wikipedia doesn't count.  My dad doesn't count.  I don't count.  However, I think that John just might have the credentials (webmaster of TSM, project two-50, etc).  So, you might find yourself getting interviewed and quoted.  Maybe.

[JohnN]

Dude, I'll help in any way that I can....

[mxaniac]

I don't have any first hand experience with the four bangers but everyone I race with tells me the problem with the 250F is the valve train.  Something goes awry and you end up getting new valve train and a head.  The number I keep hearing is $1500 per fix and to plan on it at least once a year.  In general I hear the 450f is much more reliable HOWEVER out of the two 450F riders I ride with the most one had to have the head done twice and the other even had to replace his cases.

In contrast I get a lot of hours on my ringading and chain/sprockets, air filters, piston/rings (once a year), brake pads and tires are about all I ever have to replace.  I started using Seal Savers to drastically cut down on fork seal replacment.  This will be my 5th year on my current bike so I've got some history with it.  Sad that I just can't find an suitable replacement for it, regardless of what the mags say those 05-07 CR250s are just a killer machine.

In any event, for your purposes I would get an estimate on what it would cost to replace the head, valves, camshaft, timing chain, getting the cylinder replated, and put in a new piston.  That would be the cost of a catastrophic failure in the valve train at high RPM.

[JETZcorp]

I'm an idiot.  I tried calling up a bunch of Honda dealerships, but apparently, Sunday's not a very good day to do it.  I found one Honda dealership on the whole of the West Coast that's open, and they're just there for parts pickup.  I suppose I could try some of the other Big Four, but I don't imagine I'll get anything better today.  Tuesday, I gather from them, is a good day for it.

Ah, science.  Now, if only I could cite the Super Chunk's article, this wouldn't be a problem.

[SubTexel]

4 strokes will last longer than the 30 hours quoted, but that's babying the bikes. RACING them will shorten below that 30 hour threshold, putting you on borrowed time.

Call Chaparral up and have them quote you a price, that'd probably put the rebuild @ a lopsided favor for your paper however (their service department has been booming since the 4 strokes gained popularity... Don't believe me? Ask them... They're pretty up front about it).

Best bet for getting any type of citable information would be from the service manuals or maybe MXA (e-mail them and ask, or call and ask... They have been pretty vocal about the downsides of 4 strokes compared to 2 strokes lately) and they could point you to something I'm sure.

[JETZcorp]

I've actually found out that I can cite Super Hunky's audio interview thing, so I think I'll end up just doing that.  Now, even though I've lived around two-strokes and my dad's got over ten of him in his garage, neither of us have ever had to "rebuild" one in the last ten years, so I've got no idea what that costs.  At the moment, I've simply pointed to that fact, pointed out the lower number of moving parts and called it good enough for government work.  I may still do a call experiment in order to get that information.  The paper is due on the 16th, so stay tuned for it when it comes.  We were told to make it dry and professional, but I've deviated from that as much as I think I can get away with!