Coming Soon
Home > Forum


Author Topic: What is the love with Maico????  (Read 15932 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 2smoker

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
What is the love with Maico????
« on: December 11, 2009, 04:34:47 PM »
Ok guys...Don't want to start a fight..but I think Maico is .....not so good.... lol!!! Sorry for my language but seriously... They belong to museum!!!! Get over it! It is dead.... The only thing that will change the sport is the racing rules period! The technology is there we all know it.. I like the major Japanese manufacturers and KTM and want them to be part of our sport! What about the dominace of the YZ 490? or KX500? hahah :)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 07:20:46 AM by John Nicholas »
Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline JETZcorp

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
  • Life, Liberty, and Horsepower
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 04:47:47 PM »
Maico deserves to be, and would be, one of the Big Six right now, if it weren't for the BS politics that happened within the company.  In 1981, they made the best open-class bike the world had ever seen, and they managed to produce and sell more 490s alone than the Big Four made combined.  The total production of all bikes by Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki (KTM wasn't a very big force at the time) combined, was LESS than the number of 490 Maicos produced.  1/3 of the guys making a serious attempt at success in the 500cc class were on Maicos.  Then, in the Spring of 1983, they filed for bankruptcy and have been owned by larger parent companies ever since.

What happened?  Super Hunky reveals.

http://www.superhunky.com/articles/maicopt1.php <-- Part I
http://www.superhunky.com/articles/maicopt2.php <-- Part II

In spite of all the crap that went on, Maico has been reborn and is now The King in terms of engine power.  No one makes a 250 with the sort of power that Maico does, at least not that I know of.  It's got 11 horses more than their (incredibly good) 1981 model, and 6 more than the current YZ250.  Their 500 makes 67 horsepower, and the 685 makes 80, AND weighs less than a CRF-450.  The only reason the YZ490 and KX500 did better than Maico, is the fact that they were made AFTER the days of Maico.  Before then, they were like cheating.  In fact, if you use an un-modified 1974 Maico and race it in an AHRMA vintage race in the 1974 class, you ARE cheating.  The require that you restrict the suspension travel to keep things "fair."
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 04:50:09 PM by JETZcorp »


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Recovered

  • Guest
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 05:06:00 PM »
Really???

Two things are obvious from this post.

He is either real young and has never ridden a Maico.

He is real old and had his doors blown off by a Maico.

And he supports the "big 5" who, in collusion with the AMA jammed the 4 stoke right down our throats.

WOW!

Which also means he supports Honda, who as a corporation, has went out of its way to kill the 2 stroke, and has hated the 2 stroke since day 1.

Makes no sense does it!

Offline 2smoker

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 05:11:37 PM »
hahaah This is why I started this thread..I like to shake things up!!! It is Honda's fault? yeah right! What about them with their prototype EXP-2 valve back in 96 ish...?????? http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/honda-exp2-14293.html  :) You should blame Yamaha factory(yz400F), Doug Henry championship in 98 and the AMA clowns instead including Roger Decoster! The rest is history.....
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 05:27:52 PM by 2smoker »
Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline dogger315

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 05:57:02 PM »
Quote
You should blame Yamaha factory(yz400F), Doug Henry championship in 98 and the AMA clowns instead including Roger Decoster! The rest is history.....
Don't waste your time 2smoker, I already pointed all this out. 

dogger

Offline 2smoker

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2009, 06:04:44 PM »
Quote
You should blame Yamaha factory(yz400F), Doug Henry championship in 98 and the AMA clowns instead including Roger Decoster! The rest is history.....
Don't waste your time 2smoker, I already pointed all this out. 

dogger

Anybody has a picture of the Yamaha engineer holding the YZ400M engine in his hands? This fool was on every magazine covers...
Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline dogger315

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 06:45:37 PM »
I totally agree with you.  I blame the AMA first and foremost.  Their four stroke rule loophole
allowed Yamaha to develop and field a true works bike with nearly twice the displacement. 
Add a super talented and gutsy rider like Doug Henry to the mix and Yamaha gets its first
Nationals Championship in years and fires the opening shots of the four stroke war.

If that idiotic loophole wasn't in the AMA rulebook, there would have been no incentive for
any manufacturer to develop a four stroke MX bike (including Honda) and we (the riders)
wouldn't be stuck with the situation we find ourselves in.

If the AMA was at all interested in parity, it would have eliminated that loophole as soon as
#20 started winning races.  Since two of the big four + KTM  sit on the board of directors
of the AMA (not Honda), and nearly all of the manufacturers are represented on the board
of governors of the AMA, profits beats parity everytime.

dogger

Offline JohnN

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1583
  • Two Strokes Rule!
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 07:43:44 PM »
You know, I would not consider myself a Maico guy... there are those that absolutely love these machines.

I've never owned one and may never own one, but I have ridden a few and I can tell you that once you do, it will become a bit clearer why these guys love them so much.

They really work that well.

You guys are so right... the AMA has done something that I would call criminal. In fact I wrote an e-mail to Rob Dingman when he first started in office. It was a respectful letter but stated my views on the displacement disparity. As expected I didn't even get a form letter in response.

Honestly I keep going back and forth thinking that someone there will finally come to their senses and do the right thing. Then realizing that it'll never happen.

Those are the times that I feel that a competing organization need to be created. But there are hurdles to getting that done. One is ensuring that there is actually enough interest to do so and the second possibly more important aspect is how to get money to run it.

Currently the manufacturers control the purse strings, that's why the AMA acts like a little puppy around them. There's money being dangled in their faces and like a crack addict they can't quit the habit.....


Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!

Offline JETZcorp

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
  • Life, Liberty, and Horsepower
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 11:57:32 PM »
Going back a little, the EXP-2 is exactly why I don't like Honda.  In almost every other respect, they're like all the others in that they've been active in replacing two-strokes with four - although they've taken it further than the others by eliminating it from its entire line (CRF-50 my ass!) and even putting in some anti-two-stroke lines in their advertising in other markets.  "Honda lawn equipment doesn't require you to mix oil with gas, saving you time and money!"  But anyway, up to that point they could theoretically be forgiven.  The EXP-2 changes that.

What they did was create a two-stroke with such promise that it was able to threaten big, four-stroke two-cylinder bikes in rally events, sporting similar power, but more torque and something like 100lbs less weight and better emissions.  This could have been made into a street bike that would have raped Ninjas, and Honda could've dominated motocross and anything else where you need a light, powerful, extremely low-emission engine.  What did they do?  They gave the engineer behind it a big, fat, demotion and cancelled the program.  They could have changed the world, but they were SO dedicated to 4T technology that they took The Next Big Thing and handed it the axe.  And when I say it had "lower emissions" than a same-power four-stroke, I'm not saying it's slightly better.  Oh no.  This thing had 1/5 the CO emissions, and 1/7 the NOx emissions.  The fact that they cancelled this may truly be counted as a crime against humanity.  Imagine what that kind of improvement would've done to SE Asia, where the two-stroke engine is the backbone of all personal transportation.

That is why I can't forgive them.  It's more than unfair competition rules.  This is a case of ideology and policy suppressing technological advancement.  As one wishing to enter the field of engineering, I would have a very, very hard time naming something I hate more.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 11:59:10 PM by JETZcorp »


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline bearorso

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2009, 01:01:33 AM »
 
I've had both a 89 320 & an 86 490. Both were wonderful bikes ( at least, with the 320, when I finally sorted out the flywheel weight to go on the Motoplat ignition after the SEM carked it ), the 490/500 much more so. Everything I've done to my current CRE500 has been to produce a bike to emulate the Maico. I Will regret selling the big Maico for the rest of my life, a stupid move, as I didn't need the money at the time.

JETZcorp : I despise Honda for the very same reasons. The anti 4t stance they had/have was inculcated into the firm by Soichiro (sp?) Honda himself. They were upfront about it, to a certain extent, anouncing their intention of stopping 2 stroke sales by the end of the 2007 model year. But they have used their strength & influence to change racing rules to their benefit so many times it disgusts me. They even tried having 2ts banned from the World Trials Championships a few years ago.

They did, however, make use of the EXP AR technology, selling many thousands of CRM250ARs over quite a few years, mainly in Japan and other Asian countries, but I could drive into Sydney today and pick up one (grey imports I think , but Honda OZ may have brought some in?) from a few dealers today - which I hope to when I've some spare cash floating around. These made the other Dual Sports of the time feel gutless by comparison, and with the factory hot up kit, made close to CR power (but smoother) at that time. I would love to see the use of AR (trapping valve) tech plus DFI in a modern 2t engine. Hopefully, other DFI 2ts finally appear and Honda's hand if forced by market demand, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

The pics below are of the EXP in its short course (Nevada Rally) format, the other of a CRM250AR.


Recovered

  • Guest
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2009, 08:55:39 PM »
Hopefully, the General will approve my latest article and it will be posted for all to read. Feel free to comment once you have read it.

BTW, it's hard to make the CR or KX resemble the Maico, but you can get really really close. I rode a 2003 KX 500 not that long ago, in stock form except for jetting, Boyesen reeds and a Stealthy (sp?) fly wheel weight.

If I didn't have the Maico (or couldn't afford/get one) I'd certainly ride the KX.

Offline AFG

  • Intermediate
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2009, 09:03:10 PM »
Ok guys...Don't want to start a fight..but I think Maico is as gay as 2 guy kissing lol!!! Sorry for my language but seriously... They belong to museum!!!! Get over it! It is dead.... The only thing that will change the sport is the racing rules period! The technology is there we all know it.. I like the major Japanese manufacturers and KTM and want them to be part of our sport! What about the dominace of the YZ 490? or KX500? hahah :)

Recovered

  • Guest
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2009, 09:11:56 PM »
hahaah This is why I started this thread..I like to shake things up!!! It is Honda's fault? yeah right! What about them with their prototype EXP-2 valve back in 96 ish...?????? http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/honda-exp2-14293.html  :) You should blame Yamaha factory(yz400F), Doug Henry championship in 98 and the AMA clowns instead including Roger Decoster! The rest is history.....

Hopefully I'll have an opinion article published soon. Should be in the Generals in box as we speak.

Read it and then tell me what you think.

And to dispute my assertion about Honda is rediculous. It's well published that old man Honda himself hated 2 strokes and in road racing, Honda has been successful in jamming 4T's in and taking 2T's out.

Love Honda if you want, just be hoinest about who and what they are.

Offline 2smoker

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2009, 09:23:01 PM »
hahaah This is why I started this thread..I like to shake things up!!! It is Honda's fault? yeah right! What about them with their prototype EXP-2 valve back in 96 ish...?????? http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/honda-exp2-14293.html  :) You should blame Yamaha factory(yz400F), Doug Henry championship in 98 and the AMA clowns instead including Roger Decoster! The rest is history.....

Hopefully I'll have an opinion article published soon. Should be in the Generals in box as we speak.

Read it and then tell me what you think.

And to dispute my assertion about Honda is rediculous. It's well published that old man Honda himself hated 2 strokes and in road racing, Honda has been successful in jamming 4T's in and taking 2T's out.

Love Honda if you want, just be hoinest about who and what they are.

MAd MAd MAd...I totally agree about Honda ditching the 2 stroke but they also brought some  heritage to the sport, cool stuff like the twin spare aluminum frame  and their craftsmanship quality is top-notch . I never raced a CR but I still want them to be part of Motocross racing...BTW blame Yamaha with their YZ400M prototype...within a competitive market like Motocross, Honda Jumped on the bandwagon of 4 stroke..But with the recession right now we all know what will happen to the 4 stroke new era..
Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline AFG

  • Intermediate
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: What is the love with Maico????
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2009, 09:29:12 PM »
Sorry I messed up the quote part. I guess it must be the Museum air I breathe or something. 2smoker there are those of us who raced this brand for many years very successfully. Therefore, we like the bikes and like to talk about the brand, and it's return to the U.S.. It's easy. Don't like Maico, don't read the Maico threads. Love Honda? Start a Honda thread. Easy huh?