Ideas bank

[citabjockey]

Sounds like an interesting plan -- and an ambitious one as well. Many of the details are far beyond my skills -- seems like you need a full structural and mechanical engineer on your staff!

Okay so after much thought and research I have come up with an idea about actually building my own bike, my thoughts so far are to create my own frame from steel, use BMW duolever front suspension (looks rather interesting and could help to stop the front wheel locking and sliding out under hard braking) with the angle of the forks being adjustable atleast in the early testing stages, use an updated/upgraded version of the Suzuki full floater system on the rear and also to convert my KTM engine from reed valve to disc valve via gearing from a cog which will replace the flywheel weight, this gearing should hopefully then go on to power a mechanical fuel injection system using a cam and cam follower to compress a small pocket of fuel forcing it into the engine at the same point in the stroke everytime along with the air which should do the same do to opening of the disc valve being the same with every turn of the crank.

Can anyone tell me whether that should work or not aswell as if people have other ideas on what I could do, help would be much appreciated.

[Jeram]

converting a reed to disc valve will be expensive and tiresome, do you a have money to burn and lathe milling maching/cnc/casting/mechanical eng skills?

The alternative to disc valve is a mechanical reed valve called the 24/7 valve which aprilia was developing just at the 2T GP bikes were killed off.

at normal RPMs the reed valve operates as normal, at high RPM the reed valve opens up to allow free flow of air through to the cylinder at high RPM via stepper motors.

[Jeram]

[motoman356]

anything deemed green/electris is to gas engines what satan is to jesus. evil

[gpnewhouse7]

Well my plan is to start with the frame and suspension and use the KTM engine as is for now until I get the frame to where I want it, then by the time I have completed the frame I should have learnt enough to start work on the engine.

I know it won't be easy but I like a challenge and I would also love to do this kind of work as a job in the future so while I will be learning at the school of hard knocks I should eventually have a great bike of my own or atleast a good idea of how not to make a motorcycle.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

That said I do like the "run what you brung" class idea. BTW - how would the "safety" rules be adminstered?

The safety aspect would be the usual inspection for required items, i.e. spring loaded foot pegs. grips covering the end of the bars, fenders, cross bar pads...and of course, an opening in the rules to allow unforeseen situations such as a minimum weight if bikes are becoming too flimsy and injuring riders or wheels collapsing due to being too thin. That sort of thing.

With rules like these, an engineer or creative person will be able to push the envelope. Sure, old technology (turbos, forced induction will appear but just like in F1, will quickly die out due to the mileage and emissions restrictions. new tech, like electric or alcohol or other fuel (diesel, hydrogen, water!) will have the opportunity to showcase its ability. Hey, how about plutonium!

[Jeram]

Someone will just get very smart and do the following.

Kerosene fuel or gas

small micro turbine (size of car turbo) as proposed for future fuel efficient jagaur cars

this turbine powers a generator

generator powers elec motors = domination

(lasts longer than a battery, its lighter than a battery set up, and it got a smaller 'footprint' than a battery)

[VintageBlueSmoke]

I agree with you Jeram, turbines are very chic. Almost won the Indy 500 except for an $8 part failure - then ruled out of existence. But hey, they are also very pollutant. But that is what is cool about a box rule.  The best and brightest will float to the top. The hard part will be any equivalency rules (more gasoline than diesel or more alcohol than either, more weight allowed for batteries, fuel etc.) but other series do it, just look at ALMS and Le Mans. I am sure there is a testable way to equate amounts of different fuel based upon their ability to produce energy.

[citabjockey]

One other factor relative to this spinning turbine. This represents a mongo gyro which when in an airplane or a car doesn't really cause that much grief. In a bike trying to do a whip over a triple? I have a sneaking suspicion that it would drive the rider CRAZY. It would be the ultimate in power to weight ratio however. But I would also miss the BRAAP even more.

If you look at the current crop of zero motorcycles they are getting pretty close to something real world now. If they slant the battery just a bit more to higher  current over a shorter duration they may match a 250SX in output that would last an entire moto and not weigh significantly more either. Those days ARE coming. But I would also miss the BRAAP EVEN MORE.

Someone will just get very smart and do the following.

Kerosene fuel or gas

small micro turbine (size of car turbo) as proposed for future fuel efficient jagaur cars

this turbine powers a generator

generator powers elec motors = domination

(lasts longer than a battery, its lighter than a battery set up, and it got a smaller 'footprint' than a battery)

[Jeram]

nah shouldnt have any effect, Iv never heard anyone compain about a turbo mucking up handling on their bike?

[citabjockey]

But has anyone put a turbo on a 200lb dirt bike that is expected to fly accurately over 70' jumps? Hmmm, maybe it would actually be an advantage?

I myself used to own a honda CX500 turbo. Never noticed the gyro effect -- but turbo lag? it had that in spades. Now a turbine engine would probably have a larger rotor than a turbo charger bolted onto a piston engine. Yes?

[riffraff]

Much like turbo lag, with a turbine you have spool up time. You would need to run the engine at nearly 100% power all the time. How about an injected rotary (aka Wankel) in a bike, they're sorta like 2 strokes.

[Jeram]

no, not a turbine powered bike!

a tiny gas turbine that spins furiously at a constant speed, driving a generator to provide charge directly to an electric motor.

Its an electric bike, without the weight of batteries and with a very long range.

similar to this Jaguar concept car, but without the 70km range battery pack, turbine full


but are we getting off topic here a little? I had thought that the intest of this thread started as maybe ideas for improving/building bikes? and here I am talking gas turbines haha

[VintageBlueSmoke]

We are talking about several different technologies here and I take the blame for confusing folks. My point was with an open (box) class, it would open the door to try different tech (i.e. turbos, turbines, wankels, 2 and 4 strokes, electrical, etc).

I would think a small turbine (i.e. r/c aircraft motor) might provide enough power to run the electric motor on an MX bike. I might just try that with my kid's OSET trials bike! What he doesn't like about the OSET is that it doesn't go "Vroom vrooooom!" He rather ride his Husqvarna (that scares him because it is too fast for a 2 year old) because of the noise.

[Jeram]

We are talking about several different technologies here and I take the blame for confusing folks. My point was with an open (box) class, it would open the door to try different tech (i.e. turbos, turbines, wankels, 2 and 4 strokes, electrical, etc).

I would think a small turbine (i.e. r/c aircraft motor) might provide enough power to run the electric motor on an MX bike. I might just try that with my kid's OSET trials bike! What he doesn't like about the OSET is that it doesn't go "Vroom vrooooom!" He rather ride his Husqvarna (that scares him because it is too fast for a 2 year old) because of the noise.

just make sure you dont kill your son!
Ive heard stories of gas turbines exploding... but I think that was a hydrogen powered backyard made turbine kart!