Double displacement is fair is it?

[2STROKEREVOLUTION]

I am very skeptical at this moment about that horsepower result. Really, a 350 making more power than all the 450s? Seems fishy. And I test rode all the 2013 KTM MX bikes and the 350 in no way felt as powerful as the 450, even with the less weight.
I'll wait for the comparison tests to see.

As far as the 250SX goes, I could imagine they can get 55hp out of them by now. If they really cared. But there is no class to push them to have to do that.

There is a point on a MX track where there is too much power. Of course, that depends on the rider and their skill. Then the advantages of weight. As said, many pro 250 riders match the 450 lap times. I would personally probably be quickest on a 200, that is my theory. I can wring a 125/144 out but would like more bottom end. While in the desert, I can use all 55+hp of my 380 at times.

It doesn't make more power than ALL the 4foopties. Remember it needs to be wrung out to get that 53 horsepower. The KX450F makes about 55 at around 10,00 RPM. the 350 is getting pulled by the 450s all the way until the high revs when the 350 just keeps dishing out power.

I still don't trust it until there are back to back dynos. After seeing 450s "jump" a few years ago from ~48hp to ~54hp with no changes to the engines, this could be the same. New dyno, re-calibrated, weather changes, etc.

For a 350 to match a 450 in peak power, it is being stressed to the limit or everything else is being held back.

[TMKIWI]

For a 350 to match a 450 in peak power, it is being stressed to the limit or everything else is being held back.

If the figures are correct, I would say a bit of both.
Easy enough to get more power out of a 450. Thing is why, would you need to. I am not counting pros.

[Stusmoke]

I am very skeptical at this moment about that horsepower result. Really, a 350 making more power than all the 450s? Seems fishy. And I test rode all the 2013 KTM MX bikes and the 350 in no way felt as powerful as the 450, even with the less weight.
I'll wait for the comparison tests to see.

As far as the 250SX goes, I could imagine they can get 55hp out of them by now. If they really cared. But there is no class to push them to have to do that.

There is a point on a MX track where there is too much power. Of course, that depends on the rider and their skill. Then the advantages of weight. As said, many pro 250 riders match the 450 lap times. I would personally probably be quickest on a 200, that is my theory. I can wring a 125/144 out but would like more bottom end. While in the desert, I can use all 55+hp of my 380 at times.

It doesn't make more power than ALL the 4foopties. Remember it needs to be wrung out to get that 53 horsepower. The KX450F makes about 55 at around 10,00 RPM. the 350 is getting pulled by the 450s all the way until the high revs when the 350 just keeps dishing out power.

I still don't trust it until there are back to back dynos. After seeing 450s "jump" a few years ago from ~48hp to ~54hp with no changes to the engines, this could be the same. New dyno, re-calibrated, weather changes, etc.

For a 350 to match a 450 in peak power, it is being stressed to the limit or everything else is being held back.

That was when EFI actually started working decently and a combination of improved engineering. At 48 horsepower, there really is no reason to go with a 450 over a 250smoker. I'd say the manufacturers realized this and put a little more effort into it.

[2STROKEREVOLUTION]

I am very skeptical at this moment about that horsepower result. Really, a 350 making more power than all the 450s? Seems fishy. And I test rode all the 2013 KTM MX bikes and the 350 in no way felt as powerful as the 450, even with the less weight.
I'll wait for the comparison tests to see.

As far as the 250SX goes, I could imagine they can get 55hp out of them by now. If they really cared. But there is no class to push them to have to do that.

There is a point on a MX track where there is too much power. Of course, that depends on the rider and their skill. Then the advantages of weight. As said, many pro 250 riders match the 450 lap times. I would personally probably be quickest on a 200, that is my theory. I can wring a 125/144 out but would like more bottom end. While in the desert, I can use all 55+hp of my 380 at times.

It doesn't make more power than ALL the 4foopties. Remember it needs to be wrung out to get that 53 horsepower. The KX450F makes about 55 at around 10,00 RPM. the 350 is getting pulled by the 450s all the way until the high revs when the 350 just keeps dishing out power.

I still don't trust it until there are back to back dynos. After seeing 450s "jump" a few years ago from ~48hp to ~54hp with no changes to the engines, this could be the same. New dyno, re-calibrated, weather changes, etc.

For a 350 to match a 450 in peak power, it is being stressed to the limit or everything else is being held back.

That was when EFI actually started working decently and a combination of improved engineering. At 48 horsepower, there really is no reason to go with a 450 over a 250smoker. I'd say the manufacturers realized this and put a little more effort into it.

As I said, zero changes. They said so and never mentioned all the bikes feeling more powerful. It was a change in some external factor.
The benefit of a 4-stroke, while it may not make more top end power, is the low end power. That is why I would always pick a 300 smoker. 250 handling but broader power.

Here is the first dyno I have seen of the bikes. Seems the 350 does make comparable power.

[riffraff]

Interesting how the 350 doesn't really drop off and it's behind all the others until they drop off, chart does only go to 13,000 rpm. So how high does this thing rev?

[Stusmoke]

Well it obviously gets wrung the F**k out considerably. Its rev limiter is probably sitting on around 14,000 but as for its sign off I'm not sure.

In terms of pure racing potential I can definitely understand why people would want this machine over the 450s. But the COSTS!!!!! 11,000 is getting up there.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

Compareing lap times with the PRO 450/250F's is really apples and oranges. I was on thae side that said the 250F was faster because guys like Dungey were turning equal lap times but then I found that misleading.

Turns out that I wasn't considering the changes in the track between motos. Motos run groomer, 250, 450, 250, 450...all weekend with other support classes in between. Until this year, the track was ALWAYS more deteriated for the 450 than the 250 thus allowing the 250 to turn similar lap times to the 450. This year, you'll notice a bigger disparity between the 250 and 450 on days the the 250 follows the 450.

And in SX, there is no advantage to the 450 on most tracks as rhythm important than HP. Slow is Fast.

[Stusmoke]

Compareing lap times with the PRO 450/250F's is really apples and oranges. I was on thae side that said the 250F was faster because guys like Dungey were turning equal lap times but then I found that misleading.

Turns out that I wasn't considering the changes in the track between motos. Motos run groomer, 250, 450, 250, 450...all weekend with other support classes in between. Until this year, the track was ALWAYS more deteriated for the 450 than the 250 thus allowing the 250 to turn similar lap times to the 450. This year, you'll notice a bigger disparity between the 250 and 450 on days the the 250 follows the 450.

And in SX, there is no advantage to the 450 on most tracks as rhythm important than HP. Slow is Fast.

I was actually going to mention SX. In the super tight sx tracks of today, displacement really doesn't mean squat. All the bikes competing are just as capable of taking the same rhythms as each other. The power of the 450 becomes useless.