mxa used 125 build and 144 shootout

[TMKIWI]

I think a couple of people 2 pages back might have mentioned that it is the rider not the bike.
Why is this still going.

[gpnewhouse7]

I think a couple of people 2 pages back might have mentioned that it is the rider not the bike.
Why is this still going.

I have thought that myself

[Stusmoke]

Someone said something about 125s being faster. So I argued.

But I agree, rider counts for more than bike at a local level

[Suzuki TS250/185]

Yeah, that's true. And DEFINITELY at the pro level, where the people have the talent to ride a 2 stroke and make the most of all it's advantages. That's probably the reason why as long as there were two strokes in the pro races, they either won or very nearly won.

At the amateur levels, many of the riders are less skilled, so the Foo-Fifty four stroke fooper with it's boring, uneventful power and sleightly mushy acceleration caters to their needs perfectly. They don't have to worry about the intimidating suddeness and immediacy of the 2 stoke power, and they can poo around all day.

A four stroke does help the least skilled riders to poop successfully over some bumps where they might otherwise drop it, due to their lack of ability. The fumpers have definitely provided a learning platform for the lesser riders, and for wives and girlfriends who want to be able to just putt around without the bike constantly urging them forward into territory they might not be able to handle.

The four stroke's flat, boring power characteristics do have their place and they pair well with the girthsome and sluggish handling to produce a less intimidating package for beginners.

But people don't really care about that so that's why so many of them are piling up unsold at dealerships everywhere.

The lack of enthusiasm for the foopers in general might have something to do with people being smarter than the industry thought they'd be. Even though all the factories forced their "Visible Personalities" to switch off the real bikes and onto the foopers, people realize that the pro's will ride anything for a paycheck, and even say nice things about it for the money...

But, the fact that the two strokes dominated until the paychecks forced the last people off them reveals the reason why they had to be eliminated from pro racing completely by the industry via the paychecks.

They couldn't make the foopers look very good while they got gored by motorcycles half their size all the time.

[gpnewhouse7]

Yeah, that's true. And DEFINITELY at the pro level, where the people have the talent to ride a 2 stroke and make the most of all it's advantages. That's probably the reason why as long as there were two strokes in the pro races, they either won or very nearly won.

At the amateur levels, many of the riders are less skilled, so the Foo-Fifty four stroke fooper with it's boring, uneventful power and sleightly mushy acceleration caters to their needs perfectly. They don't have to worry about the intimidating suddeness and immediacy of the 2 stoke power, and they can poo around all day.

A four stroke does help the least skilled riders to poop successfully over some bumps where they might otherwise drop it, due to their lack of ability. The fumpers have definitely provided a learning platform for the lesser riders, and for wives and girlfriends who want to be able to just putt around without the bike constantly urging them forward into territory they might not be able to handle.

The four stroke's flat, boring power characteristics do have their place and they pair well with the girthsome and sluggish handling to produce a less intimidating package for beginners.

But people don't really care about that so that's why so many of them are piling up unsold at dealerships everywhere.

The lack of enthusiasm for the foopers in general might have something to do with people being smarter than the industry thought they'd be. Even though all the factories forced their "Visible Personalities" to switch off the real bikes and onto the foopers, people realize that the pro's will ride anything for a paycheck, and even say nice things about it for the money...

But, the fact that the two strokes dominated until the paychecks forced the last people off them reveals the reason why they had to be eliminated from pro racing completely by the industry via the paychecks.

They couldn't make the foopers look very good while they got gored by motorcycles half their size all the time.

Have you ever been on an MODERN fourstroke?

The fourstrokes have come one hell of a long way since Doug Henry gave the YZF 400 its first win, it wasn't just the early years that it developed though, they've come even further since the release of fuel injection. They are not XR`s anymore. They are expensive to buy and rebuild YES, but slow? Definitely not.

Modern fuel injected 250f`s are fast, heck why do you think the AMA changed its mind and allowed 250 two strokes to race against them? If both bikes have equal riders on them the 125 gets smoked. End of discussion.

[nom de guerre]

^^^  kudos to you GP for being able to decipher what TS is saying... It is flogging a dead horse trying to reason however... The truth hurts and TS has his eyes closed and ears plugged...

[Super Trucker]

Off topic but does anyone think a mx series for 1983 to 2003 bikes would be popular ?  Maybe break it down to 83 to 89, then 90 to 97, then 98 to 03.  There,s a ton of 98 to 03  125 and 250,s sitting pretty much ready to race.

[nom de guerre]

^^ I would love that ST, but it would have to be regionalised... Even then, it may be tough to fill gates. Great idea however.

Maybe a one off type of event in regions?

[riffraff]

Modern fuel injected 250f`s are fast, heck why do you think the AMA changed its mind and allowed 250 two strokes to race against them? If both bikes have equal riders on them the 125 gets smoked. End of discussion.


So the AMA is letting 250 two strokes race against 250 four strokes? I haven't heard that yet, and what do they call it because the 250 class has 450 four strokes racing in it and the 125 class has 250 four strokes in it

[cnrcpla]

Off topic but does anyone think a mx series for 1983 to 2003 bikes would be popular ?  Maybe break it down to 83 to 89, then 90 to 97, then 98 to 03.  There,s a ton of 98 to 03  125 and 250,s sitting pretty much ready to race.

I would line up at the gate if it was to be held.

[luthier269]

For a couple Years AMA amatuer rules alow 250 two-stroke 250 four stroke. But not in the pros.

[Stusmoke]

For a couple Years AMA amatuer rules alow 250 two-stroke 250 four stroke. But not in the pros.

If it were in the pros, KTM wouldn't have lost a single "lites" race since the rule cos they would've put their factory rider straight on the 250.

Yeah, that's true. And DEFINITELY at the pro level, where the people have the talent to ride a 2 stroke and make the most of all it's advantages. That's probably the reason why as long as there were two strokes in the pro races, they either won or very nearly won.

At the amateur levels, many of the riders are less skilled, so the Foo-Fifty four stroke fooper with it's boring, uneventful power and sleightly mushy acceleration caters to their needs perfectly. They don't have to worry about the intimidating suddeness and immediacy of the 2 stoke power, and they can poo around all day.

A four stroke does help the least skilled riders to poop successfully over some bumps where they might otherwise drop it, due to their lack of ability. The fumpers have definitely provided a learning platform for the lesser riders, and for wives and girlfriends who want to be able to just putt around without the bike constantly urging them forward into territory they might not be able to handle.

The four stroke's flat, boring power characteristics do have their place and they pair well with the girthsome and sluggish handling to produce a less intimidating package for beginners.

But people don't really care about that so that's why so many of them are piling up unsold at dealerships everywhere.

The lack of enthusiasm for the foopers in general might have something to do with people being smarter than the industry thought they'd be. Even though all the factories forced their "Visible Personalities" to switch off the real bikes and onto the foopers, people realize that the pro's will ride anything for a paycheck, and even say nice things about it for the money...

But, the fact that the two strokes dominated until the paychecks forced the last people off them reveals the reason why they had to be eliminated from pro racing completely by the industry via the paychecks.

They couldn't make the foopers look very good while they got gored by motorcycles half their size all the time.

I agree when you say that foopers have their place, that is for the people who just want to put around the track. But thats where an XR with the kickstand taken off should be used, not expensive ass, loud as christ motocross designed four strokes.

[gpnewhouse7]

Modern fuel injected 250f`s are fast, heck why do you think the AMA changed its mind and allowed 250 two strokes to race against them? If both bikes have equal riders on them the 125 gets smoked. End of discussion.


So the AMA is letting 250 two strokes race against 250 four strokes? I haven't heard that yet, and what do they call it because the 250 class has 450 four strokes racing in it and the 125 class has 250 four strokes in it

Its just the amateur classes that they allow it because if they allowed the 250 smoker in pro lites then it would just be a KTM and Yamaha shootout. Atleast for the first year or so anyway.