mxa used 125 build and 144 shootout

[2STROKEREVOLUTION]

At the end of the day the 250f IS faster than a 125 (like for like) just the same as the 450f IS faster than the 250 smoker, if they werent then the pro's wouldn't race the fourstrokes. Double displacement (or there abouts for the 450 class) will make a bike faster, If they allowed a diesel to race the 125 class with a 500cc maximum displacement limit then diesels would win. Its a fact of life, there is no replacement for displacement.

I'm not saying that it is impossible for a 125 to beat a 250f or that a 250 cannot beat a 450f but that will only happen if the two stroke rider is a better rider. If Dungey had took a 250 sx out to the nationals then Villopoto would have kicked his ass.

Its sad but true the race engines have been made non competitive by allowing lawn mower engines to have double their displacement some of us on here need to leave their own little world and visit the real one for a while just until they understand that the pro's do race the fastest bikes that they are allowed to race in their specific class.

250F's aren't necessarily faster. Consider what has happened: The fastest riders were the last riders to switch to 4-strokes. They felt they were still faster, until the manufacturers forced them to switch. Second, it isn't just a displacement rule against 2-strokes, they set the weight rules to favor 4-strokes. The difference between a stock and factory 450 is a good 20lbs+. 250 2-strokes are given about 5lbs that they can drop.

So in the real world, you know, where WE actually ride, a 144 will easily be faster than a 250F. The bike will retain the weight advantage. The 125s already match or beat 250Fs in peak power, so a 144 can bring up the mid to have a more usable powerband.

The 4-strokes have one real benefit. Like the "big bang" theory in street bikes, the firing cycles is spaced longer, letting the tire hook up better on loose ground.

[gpnewhouse7]

At the end of the day the 250f IS faster than a 125 (like for like) just the same as the 450f IS faster than the 250 smoker, if they werent then the pro's wouldn't race the fourstrokes. Double displacement (or there abouts for the 450 class) will make a bike faster, If they allowed a diesel to race the 125 class with a 500cc maximum displacement limit then diesels would win. Its a fact of life, there is no replacement for displacement.

I'm not saying that it is impossible for a 125 to beat a 250f or that a 250 cannot beat a 450f but that will only happen if the two stroke rider is a better rider. If Dungey had took a 250 sx out to the nationals then Villopoto would have kicked his ass.

Its sad but true the race engines have been made non competitive by allowing lawn mower engines to have double their displacement some of us on here need to leave their own little world and visit the real one for a while just until they understand that the pro's do race the fastest bikes that they are allowed to race in their specific class.

250F's aren't necessarily faster. Consider what has happened: The fastest riders were the last riders to switch to 4-strokes. They felt they were still faster, until the manufacturers forced them to switch. Second, it isn't just a displacement rule against 2-strokes, they set the weight rules to favor 4-strokes. The difference between a stock and factory 450 is a good 20lbs+. 250 2-strokes are given about 5lbs that they can drop.

So in the real world, you know, where WE actually ride, a 144 will easily be faster than a 250F. The bike will retain the weight advantage. The 125s already match or beat 250Fs in peak power, so a 144 can bring up the mid to have a more usable powerband.

The 4-strokes have one real benefit. Like the "big bang" theory in street bikes, the firing cycles is spaced longer, letting the tire hook up better on loose ground.

If you race on tight grippy tracks that don't get huge acceleration and braking bumps then sure a 144 or 125 probably is faster than a 250f but having rode a 2011 KTM 144 and a 2011 RMZ 250 I would put my money on the 250f being faster on any other type of track. The modern fourstrokes aren't as heavy as you think either I actually found the RMZ almost as flickable as the 02 KTM 125 that I rode directly after it and a LOT more flickable than the 250 KX that I rode that day aswell and down the straights the RMZ could easily hang with the big green smoker.

Frourstrokes are fast, I like them, just a shame theyrso expensive for rebouilds.

[chump6784]

There is no way a 125 can hang with a current model 250f. When the 250f's were first introduced there was not a lot of difference but the 250f's have come a long way since their early days. The 2013 250f's are making the same peak power as a KTM 150 and they do it over a broader power band.

Seems a lot of people only think of four strokes when they first came out and ignore the fact that they have been improving all the time. You still wont find me on a four stroke but they are a very good race machine

[twosmoke595]

There is no way a 125 can hang with a current model 250f. When the 250f's were first introduced there was not a lot of difference but the 250f's have come a long way since their early days. The 2013 250f's are making the same peak power as a KTM 150 and they do it over a broader power band.

Seems a lot of people only think of four strokes when they first came out and ignore the fact that they have been improving all the time. You still wont find me on a four stroke but they are a very good race machine

agreed, if they cost the same as 2 strokes then you might've seen me on one, they're great bikes IF you can afford them

[chump6784]

its not the affordability that stops me riding a 4 stroke, i simply dont find them enjoyable to ride. The 250f's feel gutless and the 450's just feel like big heavy pigs.

[luthier269]

I wish MXA would do a real shootout with all the 125's like husky tm ktm yamaha gas gas

[TotalNZ]

its not the affordability that stops me riding a 4 stroke, i simply dont find them enjoyable to ride. The 250f's feel gutless and the 450's just feel like big heavy pigs.

X2 I'd definately be fastest on a 250f but i'd also be bored with it real quick.

[Super Trucker]

A 125 has enough motor to compete with any bike made,including 450,s. My 2nd race was in 92, a deep sand track with steep hills on a 87 cr125 with a blown shock seal. Vintage class 5 years and older was pretty big then, 15 500,s  and  14 250,s. I was the only 125, went from last to 2nd. Everyone wants to win at dyracruse, because it means your the best sand rider in the state, so everyone is going for it. That was the 1st time I ever rode sand. I thought if ya raced you never let off, I passed the 500,s on the entree, middle and exit of the corners. You can be way back and hit a berm 4th gear tapped  and pass the 500,s on the straight, passing a 450 is no different. It,s all about corner speed, nothing touches a 125 in corners. You can be 2 gears higher coming in, with numerous options in the corner, a 4-st. has limited options in the corners and much slower going in.

[nom de guerre]

Steve Lamson showed what a 125 can do when he whipped everybody at the MXdN... But most people aren't that capable or lack the will to shred on a 125. Your example is a great one ST.

[TMKIWI]

The above 2 examples just prove it is the rider, not the bike.
Put 2 equal riders on a 125 and a 250F and the 125 does not have a chance.

Roczen proved that last year when he finished 5th on the 125. He was winning on the 250F.

[nom de guerre]

^^^^ exactly my point Kiwi, glad you get it & what you say is true! Painful as it is to admit...

[motoman356]

i went riding at a local track the other day and i have an 04 rm 125. im still working out some voodoo from an endo so im a little timid still but i have a long way to go to get back to being a fast novice. around the track i couldnt feel comfortable enough to clear some of the jump. however i got on my brothers rmz250 and i could chug it around area when i would need to be "racing" my 125. i was able to comfotably hit jumps and take it easy enough to do more than a lap without exhausting myself. basically (at this point) on my 125 i feel like my hair is on fire the whole time so it wears me out more and the lack of bottom power compared to the RMZ causes me to not be confident.


however im still not getting a 250f. i love riding them and i loved racing them and if i had the money i might pick one up again. but i have a low budget and delusions of being the "hero" still and i hate not being able to enhoy a 125 ( im really rusty). so my plans are to get the susp revalved and hopefully put in a 139 kit for more power and get into regular riding to shake off the dust. i plan to keep this thing till i get to the point where my skills (or weight) surpass the bikes abilities.

[scotty dog]

Steve Lamson showed what a 125 can do when he whipped everybody at the MXdN... But most people aren't that capable or lack the will to shred on a 125. Your example is a great one ST.

Oh yeah I remember that, I also remember Jeff Emig and Everts running 4th n 5th in 125/500 race at the 92 MXDN, and Manjimup is half sand half super hard pack!

[gpnewhouse7]

The above 2 examples just prove it is the rider, not the bike.
Put 2 equal riders on a 125 and a 250F and the 125 does not have a chance.

Roczen proved that last year when he finished 5th on the 125. He was winning on the 250F.

Finally another member who can also see the difference between a faster bike and a faster rider.

[twosmoke595]

The above 2 examples just prove it is the rider, not the bike.
Put 2 equal riders on a 125 and a 250F and the 125 does not have a chance.

Roczen proved that last year when he finished 5th on the 125. He was winning on the 250F.

from what i heard, that 125 didnt have hardly anything done to it besides suspension and pipe