New to motocross, and two strokes! HELP!!!

[Hondacrrider]

Hi, I guess i will start this thread off with my name, which is Spencer. I am 16(am i going to be taken seriously on here anymore?) and I ride a 2001 cr 125. I first got into the idea of offroad motorcycles when my Dad's friend found me a 1984 xr 200 in perfect condition. In my opinion, this is the only four stroke that Find worth the money, I mean, it's beginner friendly, bomb proof(which only adds to the beginner friendliness) and is amazing on gas(I almost fell over when i looked at my cr tank after the first ride after about an hour and a half of riding). I learned all the basics of riding on this bike, and would take it to a local motocross track, but all my friends would make fun of me for having such an old bike. So I sent a letter to dirt rider, and it got into the buyer's guide, which I am very proud of.Anyways, I fell in love with dirt biking right after I figured out the clutch(I popped the clutch the first time, and cat walked straight into a fence, at the time I was 13, so decided to leave the bike for a couple months), and soon, all i could talk about at school and home was about off road dirt biking. I had quite a few kids in my class who dirt biked, so, it all worked out quite well, but then we moved, and only two kids in my class dirt biked, and only one would go dirt biking more than twice a year. But all of my new friends loved the idea of dirtbiking, so, i taught close to all of my friends how to dirt bike on the xr in a local gravel pit. Being teenagers, and liking to jump stuff, and me finding some other friends living in the area who dirt biked, the bike was soon brought too it's full potential and beyond. Just this spring, trusty rusty(not actually rusty, just a nickname) died when going up a hill climb, a wire was hanging, and it eventually fell off, but this wasn't the major problem, I had forgotten to top up the oil and for a ride and a half, I am guessing, the bike ran with little to none oil(talk about reliability). So, over the summer, I saved and worked to come to the bike that I now have. i have always loved the idea of two strokes, and their wailing noise, and it was finally mine, and i had paid for it all myself, I was considering four stroke, but couldn't afford one, and I am glad I didn't buy one. So, as of late(over the late summer/fall) I have been riding a lot, until the snow came, both motocross and trails, so, this is where my questions come into play. I need help with Jetting, suspension, power mods(remember that i am 16, and I do have a budget) and most importantly, I need help with riding motocross. It is a passion that I have that is like no other. My dad, being never in his life exposed to the sport, can't help me too much, he thinks the sport looks fun, and now he has my xr 200, which he hopes to get rebuilt so he can go on trails with me, but with Jetting, and suspension and such, he is of now help. So, as a young motocrosser(my first race is in the spring in the 125 beginner class), would some wise, and experienced two stroke riders be able to give me some advice, i will take anything, because so far all I have, is my friends(who get their info from magazines) and magazines. Here is my info, if it helps, I ride in an area with all kinds of different terrain(I live in western canada, so, anything is possible), from soft to medium packed dirt, and I ride quite a bit of sand and rocks, i have access to 4 motocross tracks, 2 of which are 10 minutes away, and one that I can dirt bike to. I am 6 foot 2, and my bike has no mods(that I know of) other that a pc silencer. I run my oil 32:1, and my front suspension is feeling a bit tired(I think, or so my friend says). Anyway, if you need more info, just ask, I am just going to go look for my area's altitude for jetting.

[Hondacrrider]

The average altitude for my city is 1968 feet.

[Recovered]

I'm sure most everyone on here takes things you are asking about pretty seriously. We all come here for two reasons. We love two strokes and we want them back in motocross. So you have come to the right place. You will hear different opinions on things like jetting etc. And that's OK. Because sometimes there is more than one way to get to where you want to be. For me, jetting and suspension are two big issues. If you bike is incorrectly tuned, it will be down on power, and much more difficult to ride. I had a friend who has a CR 250. We went for a ride and he was struggling big time. He was a bigger guy (6'1" and at the time in pretty good shape) and the bike was making him it's beeeoootch. Late in the day, I jumped on to see why my friend was riding like a girl. The first 3/8's of the throttle was flat...had no response. Then it would come on like a Samurai on PCP and about throw you off the bike. No one there that day could ride something like that, nor should you. His problem was all in the jetting! Some one had put their "super tune" on it. We spent some time together with it ( I almost got in a fight with the guy at the Honda shop...he was a jerk...didn't care for my tune up) but got the thing turned around. Then it was a blast to ride, and you didn't have to worry about the thing going berserk on you and knocking you down.

That being said, the same thing can be said about suspension. Bad suspension breeds bad riding habits that are hard to break. Jetting is relatively easy to do yourself when you have the fundamentals down. Suspension on the other hand is a bit more tricky and may be better left to shops that provide the service. Unless you are a go getter and are willing to learn more than one new thing at a time. I never discourage learning.

Sooooo, the suspension needs to be sprung for your weight (full gear and helmet) and then valved accordingly. That's where it gets tricky. Shimming up the valving, knowing all the ins and outs of the shim pack so the will perform correctly. But I'm pretty sure it would be worth your budget to look into suspension modifications, then you need to learn how to TUNE it once it's back on the bike.

As for jetting...which carb does your bike have?? The Kehein PWK or Mikuni TMX? What are you using for fuel. What are you using for premix? What cutout does your slide have, pilot jet, main jet, needle number and clip position. When you have all that info, you will start to get answers that can help you.

Glad to have you on board. Keep working on your dad. Not many things for fathers and sons to do together than ride dirt bikes. Mom's too if she's cool with it!

Hope this helps.

[JohnN]

Hondacrrider  - You are welcome here! No question you could ask will ever be considered stupid or dumb. Everyone of us started out like you (if fact your story is quite close to mine) and struggled at the beginning.

Fortunately for you, there is so much more information about, motocross, racing, two strokes and tuning available today then there was when many of us began.

Many of the folks on here are very technically oriented, but I consider myself someone that knows enough about each aspect of all of the above and I leave the "heavy" lifting to the experts.

My suggestion for you is to learn the basics of all the things that you want to learn about. Then as you progress you can learn even more about the aspects that appeal to you most. Then you'll begin to ask different questions. Take it slow, if you need to and don't let anything confuse you. If you don't know something, ask a question and we'll try our best to help you.

The reason I say this is that you are asking about a bunch of diverse subjects all at once. And some of the things you want to learn about, say suspesion tuning, would be easier to learn when you have some decent riding experience. In fact all of these subjects are inter related.

Let's begin with suspension set up. First, if you don't have one, pick up a service manual for your bike, this will become your "bible" and help you in numerous ways. At the very least change the oil in your forks, using the recommended weight and capacity from the manual.

Then look for the standard settings for the clickers on the forks and shocks and re-set them back to the stock settings. At this point we are not attempting to "customize" the suspension to any specific rider, just getting a baseline to work with.

Since I'm somewhat familiar with this particular machine (my best friend owned one, just sold it recently because he bought a 2006) and from my understanding, the balance and handling of the 2001 Honda CR125 is very good. You have a very good base machine to begin with.

After the fork oil change, set up the sag in the rear shock. Here is where your manual will come in handy. Total cost for suspension set up at this point $20, to $50 dollars depending on whether you have to buy the shop manual.

The next step for the suspension is to learn what every single clicker adjusts. I will dig out a guide that I found and post it for you. It shows you how to adjust the suspension and clickers based on the track conditions that you'll encounter. while riding

Personally I would leave the power on this bike stock, just as it is for now. Meaning no hop-ups. Again just get the jetting back to stock settings, in where you can have a baseline, otherwise you will be chasing your tail!

Make sure that you are religious about cleaning the air filter after almost every single ride. These air filters are designed to be oiled with special air-filter oil, this keeps dirt out of your engine (the biggest enemy of any dirt bike) then seal the edge of the filter using a small amount of grease along the edge.

While were at it make sure that you change the transmission oil regularly. This will keep your transmission and clutch in good shape. If the bike does not have one add a drain plug that has a magnet in it (I'm pretty sure it does have one.) This will trap all the fillings from the gearbox and make sure they are removed when you change the oil.

Why do I suggest that you keep the bike stock power wise? Glad you asked! LOL

Most people don't learn how to ride properly before they begin hopping up the bike. Now I'm guessing that you want to learn how to race motocross, if this is incorrect please write back...

Believe it or not cornering and the techniques for cornering are the most important aspect of riding a motocross bike.

The general idea is that you accelerate on the course up to the point when you must get on the brakes - really hard - to slow down enough to make the corner, while shifting down appropriately for the corner. Then as you go into the corner you begin to - very slightly - roll on the throttle, as you hit the apex of the corner you should be accelerating, using the clutch as necessary.

You'll notice that in no place during this description do you see the word "coasting". In racing there should be extreme little or no coasting, either you're on the gas, or braking when it comes to cornering.

To see lot's of folks coasting, just go to a local motocross race and observe. Most racers coast going into a corner, the exception is some of the fastest guys, sometimes in any of the classes.

I know that everyone loves to jump dirt bikes. It's become a National obsession!! People practice this more than anything. But while it's fun and a necessary technique for racing, learning to corner will fill your shelves with trophies and accolades....

Many years ago in the stone age of motocross, teachers of motocross suggested getting two 55 gallon drums and setting them up about 50 yards or so apart. The idea was to practice the technique of setting braking points. Learning how late you can brake before you totally overshoot the corner. It is also used to practice the delicate balance of transition between braking for a corner and accelerating out of the corner.

Practicing these basics is very similar to practicing free-throws in basketball. You do it over and over until it becomes habit. The obvious next step is to take this technique to a practice track, while you practice ONE corner at a time, meaning don't ride the whole track (if possible) just practice your braking points and where you start accelerating in that one corner, over and over and over and over again. When you get the technique down on this one corner, then it's time to move to next one.

Now realize this is very "specialized" practice and should not be the only kind of riding you do. After an hour or so of this, just ride for fun. Enjoy riding your dirt bike. That's what's it's all about.

I now realize that I have written a book!!!!

Obviously there is much more, and we can go into deeper detail as needed, but let's begin with the basics.

-editors note - this post was written very quickly and needed some "tweaking" so it reads a little better.

[Recovered]

I always forget about the manual!!

It's really important.

Thanks John.

[JohnN]

Here's a good basic suspension set up guide by Jim Kapitan from Pro Pilot Racing.

http://www.propilotsuspension.com/

This is not the chart I promised, but will give you some ideas about suspension set up and learn what the clickers actually do.

I hope it helps!

BASIC SUSPENSION SET-UP TIPS OFFROAD & MOTO

REAR RACE / RIDER SAG:
Set your race sag on all shock springs and get in the habit of checking this measurement from time to time.
Use a metric "Sag Scale" tool like we sell for the easiest and best results!

With your bike on a stand and the rear wheel off the ground, measure from your axle upward to a point on the rear fender on a similar arc as the rear axle would travel. Record this "extended measurement".
Take your bike off the stand and settle the suspension both feet on the foot pegs, sitting or standing centered over the bike with all of your weight with gear on the bike. Take this "settled measurement".
The difference between the "extended" and the "settled" measurement is your Race Sag. Adjust the Race Sag by tightening or loosening the spring to achieve the desired recommended race sag.

(For most bikes 125,250,500 the rear race sag should be between 95-105 mm or (approx.30%-33% of total travel). However, depending on each year, make, model, linkage leverage ratio, and overall set-up, slight variations may exist for best personal preference and performance.
NOTE: 1" = 25.4 mm)
FREE SAG: After setting your race sag, check to see if you have approximately 15-30 mm or (approx. 5%-8% of total travel) of Free Sag. If you have No Free Sag and bike "TOPS OUT" or you have too much Free Sag, it is a good indication that you may need a spring rate change.

Bleeding Forks: Always bleed any air build up from the forks before each Moto with the forks fully extended (front wheel off the ground) by temporarily removing the air bleed screw at the top of the forks to allow any air to escape.
Basic Settings: When you receive your components the compression and rebound settings will be preset to a preferred starting point that corresponds to your "Data History Tracking" label. For personal preference or various tracks and conditions you may adjust slightly to different settings.

FORK CENTERING AND INSTALLATION:


It is very important to center the forks correctly or forks will bind and stick!.

Clean the surfaces where the steering clamps and fork legs contact each other.
Clean the surfaces where the front axle and axle clamps contact each other.
Install forks in steering triple clamps at desired fork height.
Lightly torque steering stem upper and lower pinch bolts only as tight as recommended in owners manual. Do not over tighten lower pinch bolts on steering stem or forks will bind!
Install front wheel, axle/nut, front brake caliper and rotor side pinch bolts.
Before tightening the right fork pinch bolts on axle shoulder, pump the forks up and down several times while applying front brake to achieve smooth fork performance.
Tighten the right side pinch bolts at the axle shoulder at this natural neutral non-binding positioning.


SETTINGS AND DAMPING ADJUSTMENT

Sand Tracks may require a little more low speed compression and rebound when compared to Hard Pack Tracks.

Hard Pack Tracks may require slightly softer compression settings and slightly faster rebound.

Supercross Tracks usually require more compression and resistance to G-Out bottoming load. Generally these tracks produce slower shaft speeds and increased final rate bottoming load. Marginally firmer spring rate change often applies to True Supercross only settings and will not be suitable for typical outdoor motorcross with bike made bumps.

Enduro / Cross-Country settings, valving and spring rates should optimize extreme suppleness, square edge deflection capabilities and as diverse usable range as possible. Leaning towards the softest and plushest setting is most common. However, more modern set-ups are closer to a light motocross type than ever before because of faster riders using motocross base bikes with larger heavier tanks and more demanding terrain and speed.

[ford832]

It's not your age that well stop people from taking you seriously,it's the fact that you ride a CR-hee,hee.J/K.
Yeah,what they said.As for more in depth suspension set up go here http://mx-tech.com/downloads/tuning_guide.pdf

If you search mxtech and click on "support" there's lots of good info.

[YZ250]

Hey Spencer, When i bought my 250 it came with a professional (aftermarket) owners manual, and some really good info on suspension settings and stuff. so if you want to come over to my house sumtime then we can search the manual and the suspension info if you want. (bring your bike of course). Also, my suspension is set for a guy over 200 pounds and i'm only 140, so i also need to adjust my suspension. So if you come over here we can work on our bikes. also, didn't you mention that Mr. Hedges has a compression tester? I'd like to borrow that sumtime. anyways, consider the request cuz if we work together on the bikes we have a better chance of getting them both right. chow. P.S. yay christmas break is finally on!!! w00t!!

[Out of Order]

Then it would come on like a Samurai on PCP and about throw you off the bike. No one there that day could ride something like that, nor should you. His problem was all in the jetting! Some one had put their "super tune" on it.

Hahaha I got a kick out of that. The bike must have been a screamer NSR500 with dirt tires. High sides R us.

I heard from some where, that an Aprilia mechanic said they get more power out of their 125 GP bikes from Ignition and fuel (carburetion). So I would check both.

[Hondacrrider]

Well, thanks for your willingness to help guys, hey, I thought, that maybe, to help with starts against 250f's I would replace my sprockets with ones that are geared down more, more torguey, I have already ordered them, good choice, and i ordered steel too, bad choice? They are a lot heavier, like the guys who wrote reviews said that they are a lot heavier

[JohnN]

Let us know if you need any help or advice and we'll do our best to help.

So if your trying to beat the 250F's off the line, it means that you are already racing. Practice your starting technique as much as possible, so that in a racing situation you do everything perfectly.

Meaning you get the bike off the line straight without sliding sideways, no bogging the bike, shifting at the optimum time and weight distributed on the bike correctly for the conditions of the day and moment.

I know that you're on a low budget, but the bored out carb, air intake, reeds and holes in the airbox will increase the power of your bike dramatically!! Check out the article on the main site.

Steel sprockets will certainly wear longer than the aluminum, but will be fine for a beginning racer. Add 1 or 2 teeth to the rear sprocket at the most, to help with snap in acceleration.

Please keep us up to date on your progress... we want to see some action photos!

Good luck!

[eprovenzano]