SuperHunky .com Interview - Project Two 50

[Maico International]

If you look at the power to weight ratios of a 450 4s and a 250 2s you'll find that they are similar. The difference is tractability, the 450 4s is "finding traction", and that is why it is winning. Souping up a 250 2s even more isn't going to do any good if it all goes up in wheelspin. The objective is to win and 250 2s's need technology that will make them more tractable and able to find traction. Proof of this is that 35hp 4s are posting the fastest laptimes on some tracks.

Very Valid comment Sachsgs, in my opinion the original popularity of the fourstroke comes from its smooth power delivery gaining maximum traction possible from low revs upwards, due to the power delivery."Generally speaking" two strokes provide a distinctive powerband and naturaly when the power comes in its initiall inertia is likley to spin the rear wheel causing a break in traction.At the risk of stating the obvious, the Maicos still provide that almost linear power that comes straight off the idle as smooth as you like.Of couse we must remember that when Yamaha first popped a four stroke motor into a M.X. bike in the eye's of the world Maico was dead and burried so their would be no comparison to their new bike. 

[Turquine]

I believe it, JETZ. One of my brothers had a 1985 Husqvarna 500CR, not XC, but the motocrosser. Six speeds. That I believe, was probably the fastest dirtbike I ever rode. Was too tall for my tastes, I'm just 5/8, but it was a beauty on the straights. Thought I'd post some pics of a couple of the old bikes I mentioned earlier in this thread, just for laughs. I didn't have much money so I ended up with old used bikes in those days, that were mostly piles of junk, but were fun at the time.
First one is my '70 Kawasaki Green Streak. Was originally a 250 and was, believe it or not, raced in local MX races. I put a 350 top end on it and power wasn't bad for the time. It hated jumps, wanted to flip, then nosedive, lol. 2nd pic has me at 17, with the same bike in back, my 14 year old brother in front with his 360 Bultaco (I think) Bandito. Not sure what year it was, can't remember. It was a 4 speed, and considerably faster than the Kawasaki, but not as fast as my next bike, the evil, wicked, mean and nasty, 1974 Yamaha SC500. Third pic is me starting the SC 500. In the back, the guy holding the cowboy hat leaning on the 1975 Honda CR125 Elsinore, is the guy who several years later, bought the '84 Honda CR500 I was referring to in my previous posts. Anyhow, back to the SC500 here. It had a desert racing tank on it, but was otherwise stock. Those things were notorious for seizing, but it never seized on me. I found the trick was mixing the oil at 10:1 instead of the usual 20:1. Even so, after about 30 minutes of riding, it would lose power very badly due to overheating. Would have to park it and let it cool. It was fast, but I actually feel my older 350 was a better machine.

[Turquine]

That's true, Maico International, but the old Maico 490s already had considerably more power than the new 450 4strokes, and I'm sure the new ones are probably the best machines made. Wasn't knocking their kind of power, merely pointing out that a 250 needed quite a power boost from stock, in order to really compete against factory 450 4strokes, and simply broadening the powerband wasn't enough. Project 250 is adding a lot of hp though and doesn't have a problem here it would seem.

Just out of curiosity, I've got a question on Maico power, maybe you can answer it. I'd heard that the newer 620 Maicos actually were faster and more powerful than the 700 model, which was supposedly more mildly tuned. Just curious as to if you know if this is or was, true.

[admiral]

The higher unsprung weight of a 17" tire has a considerable effect on accelleration and suspension action.

yes it does and can easily be felt. i have always prefered the 18" to the 19" but the 19" came about from SX racing where sidewall flex was considered detrimental. on my CR/KX 500's and KTM 380SX i have used the 120 width tire on hardpack tracks for years rather than the 110. it acts like a huge flywheel weight and keeps the wheel spin in check on blue groove and wet greasy tracks. the few times a year i ride in ideal conditions is where the 110 tire shines.

[JohnN]

Somehow, with a tremendously powerful 2stroke, far more powerful than any 250 2stroke, he managed to get enough power to the ground to easily blow away the big 4strokes which get such great traction.

While I've mentioned this before it bears repeating here... to get the most out of an Open class two-stroke, you've got to shift much earlier than you think. If the bike is "revving out" you are just spinning your wheels, making a show of it, wasting time and energy and not going nearly as fast as is possible.

This is the reason for the inequality in displacement between the two and four stroke... otherwise there would be little that they could do to be competitive at the Pro level.

The Open bike loves to be shifted early, to the point that it seems like it would never pull the next gear. When ridden in this manner you are treated to missile like speeds.... with all the wonderful benefits of much less rider input attempting to control the rear wheel from ripping the knobs off the tire... and the front wheel seeking cruising altitude.

Getting back to Project Two 50 keep in mind that the tracks have been set up with arcing turns, there are very few tight corners on Pro MX tracks... this one change alone will allow you to set up the bike with a powerband that does not need to be so linear...

Add to that the current direction the four-strokes are headed, which is to smoother power delivery (mainly because no one can race the machines wide open) and the switch to 350cc Open bikes... it opens the door to the 250 two-stroke being much more competitive than they had been in the past.

I loved the videos of the 2003 Supercross... there was one move where Chad Reed dove between two four-strokes in front of the mechanics area and just plain out-accelerated them to the next corner.

Besides that the sound of the two-stroke is racing... the four-stroke sound you can't tell the good guys from the not so good guys. You could hear where Chad was on the gas and RC was not as hard... you have to really listen and concentrate, but you can hear it.

[SachsGS]

I may be wrong but what I think we will see in the future are DFI two strokes with some kind of wheelspin sensing traction control. Bike management electronics are transforming the streetbike world and I think it is inevitable that this technology is applied offroad as well.I'm very curious to see how a FI conversion would alter an existing 2s MX after reading an article about 2s streetbike conversions.

On the subject of Maicos, I've always marvelled at how the big bore Maico can be so civil, almost vibration free with a "sleepy" smooth output, and yet make so much power.Back when the 4s were first gaining popularity I'd be riding with a bunch of "blue bikes" and I'd constantly have to be careful not to run into them but I thought "no big deal they're just 250 4s".Imagine my surprise when, at the end of the day, I realized they were all YZ426's.

As for those 360 Bandito's I sold a few on Ebay and let me tell you the Spanish collectors sure like them.I could sell a dozen tomorrow if I could find them.

[Maico International]

That's true, Maico International, but the old Maico 490s already had considerably more power than the new 450 4strokes, and I'm sure the new ones are probably the best machines made. Wasn't knocking their kind of power, merely pointing out that a 250 needed quite a power boost from stock, in order to really compete against factory 450 4strokes, and simply broadening the powerband wasn't enough. Project 250 is adding a lot of hp though and doesn't have a problem here it would seem.

Just out of curiosity, I've got a question on Maico power, maybe you can answer it. I'd heard that the newer 620 Maicos actually were faster and more powerful than the 700 model, which was supposedly more mildly tuned. Just curious as to if you know if this is or was, true.

Turquine,
             I have to be a little careful how I put this without giving too much away about our development and future press releases but in a word, no the 700 is definetly a lot faster than the 620!

[riffraff]

  "I may be wrong but what I think we will see in the future are DFI two strokes with some kind of wheelspin sensing traction control. Bike management electronics are transforming the streetbike world and I think it is inevitable that this technology is applied offroad as well.I'm very curious to see how a FI conversion would alter an existing 2s MX after reading an article about 2s streetbike conversions."


isn't that the supposed to be riders job  But seriously, how about those electric bikes with a throttle controlled 2st sound track and a castrol based incense burner in a pipe under the seat 

[SachsGS]

Hey, the way things are going we may all be on battery powered MX'rs soon anyway.Enjoy the ride!

[JETZcorp]

I still think that once algal fuel becomes economical enough to sell on a large scale, the gasoline engine will remain as the dominant engine, and be the option of choice for environmentally-conscious buyers.  Because of the way the fuel is produced, you can run one mile to the gallon and still be carbon-neutral (although it'll still be an expensive proposition.)

[JohnN]

Just an FYI - from the AMA Pro Racing rulebook;

3.15 Telemetry and Traction Control
a. Electronic devices designed specifically for traction control are
prohibited. This includes sensors that can determine front wheel
speed and any electronic control to the brake systems.
b. Electronic transmittal of information, including radio communication
to or from a moving motorcycle, is prohibited with the following
exceptions:
i. AMA Pro Racing transponders utilized for scoring purposes
(mandatory equipment assigned by AMA Pro Racing).
ii. Data or video transmitted for the sole use of AMA Pro Racingapproved
event television production (mandatory equipment
assigned by AMA Pro Racing).
c. Electronic lap-timing devices are permitted. Transmitter beacons
must be in an approved area. Receivers shall not be mounted on
the front area of the front number plate.

[Turquine]

Thanks, Maico International! You answered my question. I know from a test I read recently that the newer Maico 500s are considerably quicker than the old 490s so, that tells me that more than likely, that Maico 700 is the quickest, most powerful stock dirtbike of all time. Man I wish there was an unbiased magazine out there that could test that baby! What a desert machine that would make. I look forward to the day you can give us more info on that beauty. Thanks for your answer though, I appreciate it.

[JETZcorp]

Here's what they should do.  They should take some of the more "hot" two-stroke riders from around the country, have them ride the bike for a week and really get to know it, write down their thoughts, get some numbers, whatever.  Then, hand all this over to Super Hunky to write up an article like it was 1972, with none of that corporate bullshit.  Go ahead and throw in some built-to-the-hilt 450Fs for the test, as well, to see how they fare against a stock 700.

[Hondacrrider]

Hey John, I was just wondering, but before you picked Yamaha, did you guys ever consider service Honda and their cr250r in a 2010 crf250r frame? That would be a killer bike if the motor was properly tuned. I think that it would actually be under the weight limit, imagine that, having to add weight to your bike, while the factory teams have to spend thousands to take weight off. Are you guys considering using service Honda next season if Yamaha does not end up helping out with bikes?

[JETZcorp]

I'd think twice about starting a big two-stroke revolution campaign aboard something with the word Honda in it.  People in the grandstands might see it winning and dart over to their friendly local Honda dealer, which wouldn't exactly help the two-stroke cause as much as if we used a bike from a factory that is definitely recognizable as making two-strokes.  A lot of people would hear "Service Honda" and not even think it was an actual separate outfit that makes their own Franken-bikes.