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Offline JohnN

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2010, 01:12:40 PM »
Guy B is the owner of Vital and he commented and even asked a question... usually he just says something brief and not so nice about two-strokes... but then he makes a bunch of money working or the Big 4 manufacturers...

John, since RupX pointed out TSM on Vital today, I figured it'd be worth stopping by to clear up a couple things that I noticed.

1. You're mistaken. I don't own Vital MX. I'm an employee here.

2. As far as me making a bunch of money working "or" the Big 4...I also happened to notice in another thread that someone commented that Yamaha was an advertiser on Vital. The last time I checked, they were still interested in selling two-strokes, too. Yes, they advertise. But that doesn't dictate opinion. The same goes for the other manufacturers.

3. Yes, I occasionally have fun with some of the two-stroke aficionados over on Vital. But that's generally when they bring up the notion that there's some kind of secret society where I'm supposed to talk up four-strokes, and talk down two-strokes. Or that I'm getting paid off. To clarify for the crew here, I grew up watching and riding two-strokes. I get that they're fun to ride, cheaper to maintain, etc. Yes, I still love the smell and sound of a two-stroke, etc.

4. I did notice one other thread where there was a quote from me in Racer X. "I think two-strokes are sort of like a past relationship. You  remember the good parts, and quickly forget the bad parts. There's a lot of nostalgia for the scent, and the sound, but the equipment and racing itself is better now." I don't remember the exact context of the thread that came from, but it's a personal opinion, and I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about from last summer.

During the intermission race at Unadilla during last year's National that featured both vintage and modern two-strokes, I was watching the riders drop into the Screw-U section, and back out. I also watched the pro class guys through there during one of their motos. Where a lot of the two-stroke guys were having trouble keeping the front end down, and were busy fanning the clutch, while almost universally, the four-stroke guys were motoring smoothly up the hill. There's a lot less flailing on the four-strokes. That's part of what prompted my comment.

Anyway, that's it for my quick stop by here. Have fun, and watch out for the black helicoptors. ;)

Thank you for stopping by and clearing up some false information. I appreciate it.

Probably best to respond to your notes by number...

1. Sorry, here I assumed something that was totally wrong. In my defense, every time I've heard anything about Vital is was in the same sentence with your name. Who does own Vital??

2. This was not my full understanding.. I've mentioned it in other areas of the site before, when any media outlet sells advertising, it is difficult to say lots of bad things about them. Not a conspiracy, just smart business. Yes I have seen Yamaha advertisements on Vital, but the ones I did see were about the bikes they were trying to sell (I believe leftover four-strokes)

Also if memory serves correctly, you have done freelance photography for Yamaha. I know that when someone pays me for a job, I consider myself an employee of that company...

Yes, I mis-spelled "for" but you mis-spelled helicopter!  ;D ;D

3. Secret society? How can we join?? :P

4. I thought it was an interesting quote and worth repeating... believe it or not, I did get it.

The Unadilla race was a hoot!! Yes the two-strokes do require a bit more work to get around the track... we all agree to that. My question is what would happen at that same point were the 250 two-strokes and 250 four-strokes allowed to race each other... you know the joke about equal displacement??

If you read this entire thread you will notice that I suggest that members of this site (and others) be respectful of others...

As one last parting comment, why is it because some people don't agree with you about four-strokes that they are labeled crazy or nostalgic or conspiracy theorists??

Black helicopters?? Really??

Personally I would have wanted to be a fly on the wall at the AMA meeting late last year, early this year where it was decided that 250 vs 250 wasn't fair.

It would also be interesting to ask or find out why the FIM changed from 250 vs 250 for 2010..

All the two-stroke "fanatics" have been asking for, is fair rules. The current handicap does not work and is not fair.

As for responses on the forums, some folks get carried away and say silly and sometimes stupid things. It's the nature of an open forum and it goes both ways....

All the best..

« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 01:22:23 PM by John Nicholas »
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Offline JohnN

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2010, 01:28:46 PM »
Vital MX is a part of the Vital Media Network... here is a link to their "About Us" page...

http://www.vitalmedianet.com/?page_id=2

As I stated previously, I stand corrected.
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Offline JohnN

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2010, 01:38:59 PM »
For those interested in the post on Vital MX that prompted Guy B to stop by and visit, here you go...

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/The-2-Stroke-Backlash,927236
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Offline maicoman009

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2010, 04:26:03 PM »
I checked Vital MX out and noticed quite a few 2-stroke haters or at least un-beleivers on the site,one blogger said "2-strokes are dead,get over it".I say in my book 2-strokes are ALIVE & WELL!!!and if a day comes where the companies quit making the 2-strokes or the government outlaws the 2-stroke for whatever sick reason I'll just buy used 2-strokes & rebuild them as needed!I personally will always own & ride 2-stroke dirtbikes until I either DIE or become so CRIPPLED that I can't ride any longer!!!!GOD BLEES THE 2-STROKES LEFT OUT THERE! :)

Offline RideRedMx2

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2010, 05:14:08 PM »
Vital Mx.......everything u don't want your forum to be   :-X

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2010, 07:44:57 PM »
I do believe too much time is spent bitching about the 4 stroke bikes. In '72 when the displacement rule was instituted they needed the advantage and the manufacturers took advantage of it starting in '99. Ironically it started with Yamaha,the only big 4 manufacturer still selling 2 strokes in the USA. We should just ride our bikes and eventually tables will turn. It's beginning already.

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2010, 09:31:19 PM »
There is only bitching about 4 strokes because they have to "cheat" and are too expensive to maintain. ::)
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Offline DangisMX

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2010, 01:52:41 AM »
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And i hope to see some manufacturers continue to develop new technologies to fully use the 2 stroke potential.

While it's nice to have improvements, eventually you would get a two stroke that is just as fragile as the current four strokes. I mean that's what they do to four strokes, they try to build them to their full potential, and as a result they are very unreliable. You can't have power and reliability at the same time.

A two stroke could also be made much more powerful and at the same time more fragile by using lighter parts, less material etc... I hope I'm wrong, because I like how reliable they are right now compared to four strokes. Now we at least have a choice, but what if two strokes go the same way as four strokes did? To be competitive you would have to get the new bikes, and you would end up with a flimsy piece of metal no matter if you buy the 4st or the 2st :(. Does this make any sense at all :D ? I hope I'm wrong :).

Offline 2T Institute

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2010, 04:00:29 AM »
You do already have that they are GP 125 road race bikes, the Aprilia RSW125 and the discontinued KTM FRR125 both make in the vicinity of 55HP on the wheel. The Aprilia/KTM 250's (09 was the last year of 250GP :'( ) make over 110HP at the wheel. Unreliable, well most survive a weekend at 14,000rpm that's all that matters. Parts are expensive and light but who wouldn't want a 110HP 100kg bike?

http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_1004_marco_simoncelli_gilera_rsa250/index.html

Offline DangisMX

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2010, 04:29:12 AM »
That's crazy but I wouldn't want one if I can't afford to maintain it. :(

Offline KTMguy

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2010, 04:44:15 AM »
Well the same was probably said in the 80s when they switched to water cooling and power valves.

If they would have stopped there then we would be riding around like Jetz.


Bring on DFI!!!

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2010, 04:48:13 AM »
Quote
And i hope to see some manufacturers continue to develop new technologies to fully use the 2 stroke potential.

While it's nice to have improvements, eventually you would get a two stroke that is just as fragile as the current four strokes. I mean that's what they do to four strokes, they try to build them to their full potential, and as a result they are very unreliable. You can't have power and reliability at the same time.

A two stroke could also be made much more powerful and at the same time more fragile by using lighter parts, less material etc... I hope I'm wrong, because I like how reliable they are right now compared to four strokes. Now we at least have a choice, but what if two strokes go the same way as four strokes did? To be competitive you would have to get the new bikes, and you would end up with a flimsy piece of metal no matter if you buy the 4st or the 2st :(. Does this make any sense at all :D ? I hope I'm wrong :).



According to Mitch Payton you are wrong. He said we had already maxed out the 2 strokes.  That's the thing about a 2 stroke motor.  You can port them, and you can put a pipe, and a intake on them for about $600?  On a 250F, you can spend that on just a pipe.  The whole reason 4 strokes have amost equal power, is because they run at about double rpm to make up for the lack of firing at the other 2 strokes, and that is with double the displacement as well.  A 2 stroke is harder to turn up the rpm's like that because of the back pressure etc.  I don't believe most 2 strokes even have a rev limiter because of that.  It just runs out before it could explode.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 05:03:09 AM by miedosoracing »
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Offline JohnN

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2010, 05:36:17 AM »
Vital Mx.......everything u don't want your forum to be   :-X

I agree...

It's so nice to have conversations with like minded folks that respect each other... I truly appreciate everyone on this board for following that one rule.

You guy's are the best!
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Offline JohnN

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2010, 05:48:21 AM »
I do believe too much time is spent bitching about the 4 stroke bikes. In '72 when the displacement rule was instituted they needed the advantage and the manufacturers took advantage of it starting in '99. Ironically it started with Yamaha,the only big 4 manufacturer still selling 2 strokes in the USA. We should just ride our bikes and eventually tables will turn. It's beginning already.

Hi Big Boar...

Are you sure that the displacement rule was instituted in 1972?? If so, do you have any sources for this information? I've been trying to hunt it down for quite some time. Thanks!

As for the complaints about the four-strokes, much of that is from people that have been burned by it.. sometimes folks just want to let a little steam off. I agree with you, the best way to handle the situation is to chose the bike you prefer and enjoy riding/racing it.

As for the tables turning now, some of it's due to people speaking out about it. In some cases giving others the "words" they need to settle the confusion in their own mind.

It's a difficult road to take, when everyone around you is saying that you are wrong, to step out and think on your own.

My hope is that this site contributes in some small way to making it easier for people to decide on their own.
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Offline DangisMX

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Re: Interesting Stuff On Vital MX
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2010, 07:51:29 AM »
Quote
According to Mitch Payton you are wrong. He said we had already maxed out the 2 strokes.


If so than it's great. Gives me a feeling of security :D.