What do you dislike the MOST about a four stroke Mxer?

[Stusmoke]

Well the title says it all. I don't think this has ever been covered so I figured I'd just throw it up here. Also, add in what you love the most about 2 stroke motocross bikes. I'm sure we've all got different opinions, hell some of us like both the smoker and the joker. Ahem four stroke. No seriously though, the four stroke dirtbike has its place and as such I'd like to make it perfectly clear right now that I do NOT want this thread to just turn into a lets-all-hate-on-four-strokes thread. Also, note that it says fourstroke MXER! as in motocrosser. I'm not talking about enduro bikes here. Just the four stroke motocross bike.

Now that the disclaimer is over with, I'll start off: For me its kind of a toss up between how much easier (Not easy, EASIER) they make the sport and the cost of repairs. Its like putting ABS brakes and fully automatic transmission in Nascar.

What do I love the most about two strokes? Thats a hard one. Probably the absolute thrill of riding them and just flinging them around like a ragdoll.

Again: Don't just go hating and spewing a whole heap of four stroke abuse...

Have fun, looking forward to replies

[beaner]

4 stroke dislike, cost, weight, and NOISE 

2 stroke like, ease of maintenance, premix, hit.

[nom de guerre]

for me it was mainly the weight/noise (thanks beaner)and possible failure of all the moving parts... I have had a plethora of 4t's over the years too. Husky 610, Husaberg 600/501, YZ 400, VOR 503, etc... all tanks... Contrary to a lot of the rhetoric here, they were pretty reliable and fast. It is/was all about the maintenance to prevent most failures. That being said, I have had way more two strokes and ultimately prefer the lighter weight and excitement of the way the power is put out and things of that nature. Ultimately have gone back to the beginning for me and 2 stroke til the end of my days.

[Stusmoke]

Yeah now that I know what I'm looking at in the event of a catastrophic failure of a four stroke, I don't think I could ride a mates. I'd constantly be dreading the LOCK of the back wheel and the starter not budging when you go to kick it again.

The noise of a four stroke is a pretty bad thing really... I was getting a massage around 5 clicks (kilometres) from the local track on a THURSDAY practise day. There were litterally like 3 people out there. I could hear those foopers clear as day. FFFTTTTHHLLLLLOOOOPPPPP chug chug chug FLLLLOOOOOPTTH. Horrible... But mainly the cost of the sods. if I had to choose three it would probably be cost, weight, and the how lazy they've made the sport.

But two strokes... Oh how I love the RIIING Ding ding ding RIING of a warm up. I love that I can sit my bike back up when my knee is scraping on the ground with just a crack of the throttle and a bit of physical help. The ease of maintenance is awesome too. so easy for a top end.

[nom de guerre]

4 strokes definitely carry their sound in a different manor, not to mention, they are just louder... especially when you have dopes that think noise=power. I do remember the old days when 4t's were odd and cool however(still loud though with the old Super Trapp)...

[Stusmoke]

Yeap this is true. I mean my brothers XR250 is quiet as anything. up close. But even IT carries further than my 250. Physics is a bitch... Lower octave notes maintain their noise further. Same reason you can hear a party a mile away; the bass is the only thing carrying that far. Hahaha noise=power. Thats a new one for me. The dumbest thing I've ever heard on this topic is: The reason the obstacles and whoops are getting smaller is because the four strokes are too torquey and keep overjumping... Right... Hey what about the 500 cc screamers that ran the same tracks as the 250s did? Ummmm what about them? How come they didn't have to tone down the jumps for them? Cos they aren't as powerful... I have some good laughs are my track... Its scary to think that a grown man is retarded enough to believe that sort of crap.

[snook620]

-What I dislike about a 4 stroke mx'er-

* putting it on the stand
* starting it after a crash late in the moto
* more technical to replace the top end
* price for aftermarket exhaust
* tears up rear tires
* doesnt sound as cool



-What I like about a 2 stroke mx'er-

* cheap
* easy to work on
* low weight
* sounds awesome

[rookie]

the maintenance part

if someone willing to sponsor me to ride a thumper
without paying a cent to maintain it, i will take it!   

[twosmoke595]

My top 3 love/hate on 4 stroke and 2

4 stroke
Love:
1. Very easy to ride
2. They've advanced metallurgy to make 2 stroke even lighter/more powerful, also the carbon fiber/titanium stuff looks wicked
3. they make great pit bikes, you cant tell me that having a bunch of guys on 50's banging into each other at 10 miles an hour an cutting each other off isn't one of the funnest things in the world

Hate:
1. i HATE the gyro effect when trying to lay one over, there's just something about it i cannot get over, like when you let off it wants to stand up on you and lurch you forward bc of the engine braking
2. The price of repairs, although it can be argued for days on end, oem parts for oem parts a 4 stroke is more expensive, and i'm not exactly rolling in money, but i can say that if you paid me to ride one, and paid for all maintenance i'd probably ride one. But only if i was allowed to have a practice bike that was a 2 stroke
3. its a toss up between the noise, the hard to start when hot, the ego that comes with it when somebody has a 4 stroke and that they look down to you because you have a 2 stroke

2 stroke
Love:
1. my favorite thing is showing up to the track and people scoffing at my 125 until i pull up next to them on the track and if not beat them, go toe to toe with them. it doesn't take a 450 to go fast, even better is when i holeshot bigger bikes/pass bigger bikes on the track on my 125, im just like
2. the smell of premix, its my first memory of riding when i was little, it just takes me back to walking into the supercross stadium with my dad and seeing that blue haze over the track, also 4 stroke race gas gives me a headache
3. the power/flickability/lightness/handling is about equal, its just so effortless and enjoyable, having complete control of where you want to go at all times. the power its just so much fun, and for most of us, fun is the only reason why we got into this sport to begin with, i find it truly enjoyable to wring the neck of a 125, having to control the wheelspin of a 250, feeling the electric power of a kdx200, and not getting out of 3rd gear on a 500, just so much fun every bit of it.

Hate:
1. hate having to defend why i ride a 2 stroke to ignorant and/or stupid people at the track, like premixed said, people are just stupid
2. traction on hard packed dirt, its not that bad really, but sometimes it can get frustrating when you're trying really hard and you just aren't feeling it that day or whatever the case may be, the wheel spin is more of a frustration than a hate, but then again it does make you ride the track more and find better lines
3. not even really a hate, but the black spooge that sometimes blubbers out the silencer or where the expansion chamber and silencer meet is kind of annoying, especially on a dusty day dirt + oil spooge on swingarm/shock/break line gets annoying and is kinda hard to clean

that's it, some of my stuff may be a little trivial, but that's my list, i enjoy riding dirtbikes no matter what it is, but if i have a choice and i do (we aint no communse) i'd ride a 2 stroke, because they're lighter/more fun/quieter/ less expensive and allow me to do what i love more often than a 4 stroke would

[Stusmoke]

My top 3 love/hate on 4 stroke and 2

4 stroke
Love:
1. Very easy to ride
2. They've advanced metallurgy to make 2 stroke even lighter/more powerful, also the carbon fiber/titanium stuff looks wicked
3. they make great pit bikes, you cant tell me that having a bunch of guys on 50's banging into each other at 10 miles an hour an cutting each other off isn't one of the funnest things in the world

Hate:
1. i HATE the gyro effect when trying to lay one over, there's just something about it i cannot get over, like when you let off it wants to stand up on you and lurch you forward bc of the engine braking
2. The price of repairs, although it can be argued for days on end, oem parts for oem parts a 4 stroke is more expensive, and i'm not exactly rolling in money, but i can say that if you paid me to ride one, and paid for all maintenance i'd probably ride one. But only if i was allowed to have a practice bike that was a 2 stroke
3. its a toss up between the noise, the hard to start when hot, the ego that comes with it when somebody has a 4 stroke and that they look down to you because you have a 2 stroke

2 stroke
Love:
1. my favorite thing is showing up to the track and people scoffing at my 125 until i pull up next to them on the track and if not beat them, go toe to toe with them. it doesn't take a 450 to go fast, even better is when i holeshot bigger bikes/pass bigger bikes on the track on my 125, im just like
2. the smell of premix, its my first memory of riding when i was little, it just takes me back to walking into the supercross stadium with my dad and seeing that blue haze over the track, also 4 stroke race gas gives me a headache
3. the power/flickability/lightness/handling is about equal, its just so effortless and enjoyable, having complete control of where you want to go at all times. the power its just so much fun, and for most of us, fun is the only reason why we got into this sport to begin with, i find it truly enjoyable to wring the neck of a 125, having to control the wheelspin of a 250, feeling the electric power of a kdx200, and not getting out of 3rd gear on a 500, just so much fun every bit of it.

Hate:
1. hate having to defend why i ride a 2 stroke to ignorant and/or stupid people at the track, like premixed said, people are just stupid
2. traction on hard packed dirt, its not that bad really, but sometimes it can get frustrating when you're trying really hard and you just aren't feeling it that day or whatever the case may be, the wheel spin is more of a frustration than a hate, but then again it does make you ride the track more and find better lines
3. not even really a hate, but the black spooge that sometimes blubbers out the silencer or where the expansion chamber and silencer meet is kind of annoying, especially on a dusty day dirt + oil spooge on swingarm/shock/break line gets annoying and is kinda hard to clean

that's it, some of my stuff may be a little trivial, but that's my list, i enjoy riding dirtbikes no matter what it is, but if i have a choice and i do (we aint no communse) i'd ride a 2 stroke, because they're lighter/more fun/quieter/ less expensive and allow me to do what i love more often than a 4 stroke would

Well said man. I've never had someone have a go at my smoker... When I do start racing next year II'm buying in a crap load of TSM stickers and hopefully a big banner that I can put on my ute. Also, I'll have a recording playing around my truck: "If you're gonna have a go at my bike, this is my response: Lighter, cheaper, faster, better handling, better sound, quieter, better smelling, better looking, more fun to ride, harder to ride, explosive powerband, better jumpers, better through the whoops, I think I'll stick with my two stroke." I'll just put that on a loop. I wonder if Kayne West would be willing to do a two stroke remix to harder better faster stronger; Cheaper, more fun, faster, lighter. Or a remix to linkin park's bleed it out; I scream it out twist it further just to blow them away.

I don't think Hating having to defend yourself from ignorant fools is a fault of the bike though, its a fault of human society
Anyway keep it coming guys.

[factoryX]

Something I posted earlier in the year.

1. Four strokes had to have a displacement handicap just to compete with two strokes(150 in the 85 class, 250 in the 125 class, 450 in the 250 class)
2. There is no 125 class anymore.
3. AMA redid the homologation rule just to allow the 5 brands of bikes.
4. AMA has rearranged tracks in favor of four stroke power characteristics..
5. AMA has had nothing but positive comments for four strokes, and yet whenever two strokes are mentioned we are immediately informed on how inferior they are.
6. AMA will do everything in their power to not give two strokes any media coverage, unless it is commenting on how inferior they are.
7. 4 strokes have had a costly upbringing just to be able to be competitive. There was a comment on an article mentioning the fact that Honda was spending close to $500,000,000 yearly just on GP racing, Yamaha something like $400,000,000. 500 mill times 12, and that tells you why they have blatantly shoved four strokes onto the public.
8. The average Joe cannot work on his/her own bike let alone do the required maintenance just to keep the bike reliable, and yet four strokes are still being pushed on public.
9.  Noise pollution is picking up awareness, and currently shutting down riding areas and tracks. 4 strokes were never quiet bikes, good luck getting one under 99db and keep the performance up.
10. Costly R&D on 4 strokes has aided in bringing the prices up on dirt bikes in general, there for limiting the field of buyers.
11. By dumbing down the public, people are no longer concerned with doing research on the bike they are about to purchase, specifically things like brakes, suspension, upkeep, costs, etc..
12. Two strokes are successful everywhere else except Major Media covered events.
13. Two stroke EFI has shown more efficiency than their four stroke counterparts.
14. By increasing weight and power, they have made motocross even less safe than it was. This is not a positive image to maintain, especially with Nanny governments threatening to ban youths from riding permanently.

[Stusmoke]

Something I posted earlier in the year.

1. Four strokes had to have a displacement handicap just to compete with two strokes(150 in the 85 class, 250 in the 125 class, 450 in the 250 class)
2. There is no 125 class anymore.
3. AMA redid the homologation rule just to allow the 5 brands of bikes.
4. AMA has rearranged tracks in favor of four stroke power characteristics..
5. AMA has had nothing but positive comments for four strokes, and yet whenever two strokes are mentioned we are immediately informed on how inferior they are.
6. AMA will do everything in their power to not give two strokes any media coverage, unless it is commenting on how inferior they are.
7. 4 strokes have had a costly upbringing just to be able to be competitive. There was a comment on an article mentioning the fact that Honda was spending close to $500,000,000 yearly just on GP racing, Yamaha something like $400,000,000. 500 mill times 12, and that tells you why they have blatantly shoved four strokes onto the public.
8. The average Joe cannot work on his/her own bike let alone do the required maintenance just to keep the bike reliable, and yet four strokes are still being pushed on public.
9.  Noise pollution is picking up awareness, and currently shutting down riding areas and tracks. 4 strokes were never quiet bikes, good luck getting one under 99db and keep the performance up.
10. Costly R&D on 4 strokes has aided in bringing the prices up on dirt bikes in general, there for limiting the field of buyers.
11. By dumbing down the public, people are no longer concerned with doing research on the bike they are about to purchase, specifically things like brakes, suspension, upkeep, costs, etc..
12. Two strokes are successful everywhere else except Major Media covered events.
13. Two stroke EFI has shown more efficiency than their four stroke counterparts.
14. By increasing weight and power, they have made motocross even less safe than it was. This is not a positive image to maintain, especially with Nanny governments threatening to ban youths from riding permanently.

Hit the nail on the head. I agree with everything there. Especially the part about Making MX even less safe than it was.  And the worst thing is we can't educate the people that don't want to hear it because we can't get past the massive solid wall of money the AMA has walled their four strokes up in

[scotty dog]

Dislike about 4 strokes:
The gyro effect when trying to lay one over in a corner! It doesnt happen, it just wants to stand up n go straight.
The price for parts.
The noise.
Having to check valves.
Compression braking!! Never got used to it, both 4's i had i tried to ride like two strokes, it didnt work, old habits are hard to break.
The only thing good about 4strokes is doin wheelies! The smooth power makes it easy.

I Love my 2 stroke
only thing i dont really like about em is when ya drop it when ya goonin bein a show off and dent ya brand new PC pipe!!

[Stusmoke]

Dislike about 4 strokes:
The gyro effect when trying to lay one over in a corner! It doesnt happen, it just wants to stand up n go straight.
The price for parts.
The noise.
Having to check valves.
Compression braking!! Never got used to it, both 4's i had i tried to ride like two strokes, it didnt work, old habits are hard to break.
The only thing good about 4strokes is doin wheelies! The smooth power makes it easy.

I Love my 2 stroke
only thing i dont really like about em is when ya drop it when ya goonin bein a show off and dent ya brand new PC pipe!!

Thats a good thought scotty. I had never considered that as a con for two strokes. The expansion chambers are very exposed. Well I mean I had realised that before but I'd never thought of it in respect to the cons of a two stroke. Although those Ossas with the pipe under the seat are clever. We need to hear daosplace personal review on that bike

[scotty dog]

Yes it will be very interesting to hear, i hope its as good as anticipated