"IT'S JUST THAT IT'S SO BORING...."
Today's 4 stroke racing, that is... 4 strokes function fairly well at carrying their riders down the track, but they are just fatally boring, to ride and to watch. Compared to riding 2 strokes or watching 2 strokes race, it's like watching a group of boxes race down a conveyor belt. Boring....
It's another one of the major reasons people want to defend 2 strokes so much, because they make riding a dirtbike as exciting as it sounds like it should be. And that goes for watching also. People don't want to lose that for the sake of making it a little easier for some people to make a little money for themselves.
Compared to races like the one linked below, everything we get now.. is SUCH a yawner..... zzzzzzzzzzz.........
Mike Brown Vs. Ryan Hughes 2003 Mt. Morris 125cc Moto 2 Part 1Mike Brown Vs. Ryan Hughes 2003 Mt. Morris 125cc Moto 2 Part 2 Edit post
mx295
Posts: 2452
Joined: 4/1/2008
Location: High Desert, CA USA
5 hours ago
Edited Date/Time: 5 hours ago
Memories
5th gear pinned..You can't go wrong!!
ktm125
Posts: 65
Joined: 3/16/2010
Location: Rising Fawn, GA USA
5 hours ago
They look like super humans when they pick the big up so easy after a crash and the bike starts with one kick! Crush
Posts: 2019
Joined: 4/26/2009
Location: Sydney, AUS
4 hours ago
This is where it's at...
Cheers,
Crush
raddad
Posts: 1811
Joined: 8/16/2006
Location: Wrenshall, MN USA
4 hours ago
i think the racing is better than ever, boring is the 2 stroke Mcgrath era.. just because they slide all over the place a blow blue smoke does not make it exiting IMO. Throw out last weekend and the racing has been great! Before that the RC era on a thumper was fantastic just to see the way he rode not to mention some great battles. Nope two strokes are for kids that like to look back at their roost and "think" they are going fast.
Its all about the riders involved not the type of bike..shit, good racing can be on TTR 125's with the right guys on them!
dont screw with me, i am old and feeling grumpy..
DPR250R
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/14/2006
Location: NJ, USA
3 hours ago
The racing is better now then it has been in a while.
Watching MC then RC lay waste to everyone was mind numbing... try story bro.
Your posts are very entertaining though. Hank_Thrill
Posts: 1649
Joined: 9/22/2008
Location: OK, USA
1 hour ago
Edited Date/Time: 1 hour ago
I've been thinking the same thing.he top guys get a little aggressive on them every now and then, but most the when they go to the other guys back in the pack (WHO ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD) it's like watching a trail ride.
People want this sport to grow, but it's never going to grow if boring racing is on the television.
"God Bless Two-Strokes, and God Bless John Wayne."
Vazscep
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Location: Cape Neddick, ME USA
1 hour ago
I doubt you would have seen a CR500 do the quad that Stewart did. Hank_Thrill
Posts: 1649
Joined: 9/22/2008
Location: OK, USA
1 hour ago
Edited Date/Time: 1 hour ago
raddad wrote: i think the racing is better than ever, boring is the 2 stroke Mcgrath era.. just because they slide all over the place a blow blue smoke does not make it exiting IMO. Throw out last weekend and the racing has been great! Before that the RC era on a thumper was fantastic just to see the way he rode not to mention some great battles. Nope two strokes are for kids that like to look back at their roost and "think" they are going fast.
Its all about the riders involved not the type of bike..shit, good racing can be on TTR 125's with the right guys on them!
Here's the difference between today's racing and the two-stroke ere. Back when Jeremy McGrath and Ricky Carmichael were laying waste to everyone else, the level of progression of the sport as a whole was nowhere near as high as it is now. Therefore, you only had a few guys riding a two stroke as fast as it could go. The sport progresses and evolves, leaving each generation faster.
Now, we are starting to see an era in 450 four strokes were guys are racing them as fast as the bikes can go - determined by the laws of physics. Carmichael has made this statement, and so has Kevin Windham - two guys that would know more than anybody. Then you look at the 250 Lites class, which is almost like restrictor plate racing, with less talent than in the premier class, and you have the top guys finishing extremely close together every weekend.
When racers go as fast as the laws of physics determine, or as fast as the bikes allow, you get close racing. Last week's track really tossed "skill level" into the mix for the first time this season, and the pack was spread out as much as a harescramble.
Not to mention the handling issues of 450 four-strokes. Notice how guys have so much more of a difficult time setting up a 450 four-stroke to get it to reach its full potential, compared to a 250F.
"God Bless Two-Strokes, and God Bless John Wayne."
Hank_Thrill
Posts: 1649
Joined: 9/22/2008
Location: OK, USA
1 hour ago
Edited Date/Time: 1 hour ago
Crush wrote: This is where it's at...
Back in 2005 there were three guys that could ride a 250cc smoker at that level. Now with today's progression of the sport, I can easily imagine the top ten of 2011 running smokers that fast.
Once you can fathom that; imagine how much better the 2011 racing would be!
"God Bless Two-Strokes, and God Bless John Wayne."
jmar
Posts: 11914
Joined: 2/11/2007
Location: Oklahoma City, OK USA
1 hour ago
Let's all face reality guys.
Some of you are as nostalgic about motorcycles as you are about your music.
"Man oh man, todays music sucks our old hair band stuff kicks ass".
Believe it or not, your or my generation is no more special that other generations.
Get over it, and yourselves and enjoy today's racing. If you can't do that then hang out at chickenlicks raceway live your form of reality and act as if you and your generation is something special.
It's all good either way.
Jim Martin
jmar
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK USA
1 hour ago
The 500 two strokes died for a reason.
The power was unmanageable, and it made for boring racing.
Jim Martin
gt80rider
Posts: 1265
Joined: 4/19/2008
Location: Boulder, CO USA
1 hour ago
Hank_Thrill wrote: Here's the difference between today's racing and the two-stroke ere. Back when Jeremy McGrath and Ricky Carmichael were laying waste to everyone else, the level of progression of the sport as a whole was nowhere near as high as it is now. Therefore, you only had a few guys riding a two stroke as fast as it could go. The sport progresses and evolves, leaving each generation faster.
Now, we are starting to see an era in 450 four strokes were guys are racing them as fast as the bikes can go - determined by the laws of physics. Carmichael has made this statement, and so has Kevin Windham - two guys that would know more than anybody. Then you look at the 250 Lites class, which is almost like restrictor plate racing, with less talent than in the premier class, and you have the top guys finishing extremely close together every weekend.
When racers go as fast as the laws of physics determine, or as fast as the bikes allow, you get close racing. Last week's track really tossed "skill level" into the mix for the first time this season, and the pack was spread out as much as a harescramble.
Not to mention the handling issues of 450 four-strokes. Notice how guys have so much more of a difficult time setting up a 450 four-stroke to get it to reach its full potential, compared to a 250F.
lots of problems with these statements....... but lets take two sentences for example.....
"Therefore, you only had a few guys riding a two stroke as fast as it could go."
ever go to a national or supercross back in the 80's?
ya know...... the O'Mara/Bailey/Glover/Barnett/Hannah/Ward/Lechien/Johnson years??? it could be argued that there were always 10 guys on the gate getting every bit of speed out of their 2 smoke.... ever go to a national (or sx) in 97?
? once again, it could be argued there were ten guys on the gate every week that was going as fast as their bike allowed....
"The sport progresses and evolves, leaving each generation faster."
seriously??? K-dub went pro 2 years before RC... yet he is still on todays pace..... the sport hasn't progressed much if someone that turned pro in 94' can still run with the top performers.... geezuss... give MC a fat paycheck and a year to train and he'd be stand'n on the podium after laying waste to all your "new generations are faster" guys.....
http://www.bettercallsaul.com?utm_source=vitalmx.com&utm_medium=referral
http://dannydolansmotorcrossblog.blogspot.com?utm_source=vitalmx.com&utm_medium=referral
Dikkeman IS life
GuyB
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Administrator
1 hour ago
The older you get, the better it was...
I know it's tempting to click submit without thinking first, but give it a try. Remember, half as much, twice as good.
jmar
Posts: 11914
Joined: 2/11/2007
Location: Oklahoma City, OK USA
59 minutes ago
GuyB wrote: The older you get, the better it was...
Jim Martin
Hank_Thrill
Posts: 1649
Joined: 9/22/2008
Location: OK, USA
54 minutes ago
Edited Date/Time: 51 minutes ago
raddad wrote: i think the racing is better than ever, boring is the 2 stroke Mcgrath era.. just because they slide all over the place a blow blue smoke does not make it exiting IMO. Throw out last weekend and the racing has been great! Before that the RC era on a thumper was fantastic just to see the way he rode not to mention some great battles. Nope two strokes are for kids that like to look back at their roost and "think" they are going fast.
Its all about the riders involved not the type of bike..shit, good racing can be on TTR 125's with the right guys on them!
Hank_Thrill wrote: Here's the difference between today's racing and the two-stroke ere. Back when Jeremy McGrath and Ricky Carmichael were laying waste to everyone else, the level of progression of the sport as a whole was nowhere near as high as it is now. Therefore, you only had a few guys riding a two stroke as fast as it could go. The sport progresses and evolves, leaving each generation faster.
Now, we are starting to see an era in 450 four strokes were guys are racing them as fast as the bikes can go - determined by the laws of physics. Carmichael has made this statement, and so has Kevin Windham - two guys that would know more than anybody. Then you look at the 250 Lites class, which is almost like restrictor plate racing, with less talent than in the premier class, and you have the top guys finishing extremely close together every weekend.
When racers go as fast as the laws of physics determine, or as fast as the bikes allow, you get close racing. Last week's track really tossed "skill level" into the mix for the first time this season, and the pack was spread out as much as a harescramble.
Not to mention the handling issues of 450 four-strokes. Notice how guys have so much more of a difficult time setting up a 450 four-stroke to get it to reach its full potential, compared to a 250F.
gt80rider wrote: lots of problems with these statements....... but lets take two sentences for example.....
"Therefore, you only had a few guys riding a two stroke as fast as it could go."
ever go to a national or supercross back in the 80's?
ya know...... the O'Mara/Bailey/Glover/Barnett/Hannah/Ward/Lechien/Johnson years??? it could be argued that there were always 10 guys on the gate getting every bit of speed out of their 2 smoke.... ever go to a national (or sx) in 97?
? once again, it could be argued there were ten guys on the gate every week that was going as fast as their bike allowed....
"The sport progresses and evolves, leaving each generation faster."
seriously??? K-dub went pro 2 years before RC... yet he is still on todays pace..... the sport hasn't progressed much if someone that turned pro in 94' can still run with the top performers.... geezuss... give MC a fat paycheck and a year to train and he'd be stand'n on the podium after laying waste to all your "new generations are faster" guys.....
Actually, (don't mean to sound like an asshole), your statement of 80's racing supports exactly what I'm saying: when you have 10 guys getting every bit of speed out of their bikes, you're going to get close racing, regardless of the cycle of engine, or displacement size.
Sorry, for saying Chad, James, and RC were the only ones riding two-strokes as fast as they were in 2005, but they pretty much left the rest of the racers in the dust, with the exception of K-Dub on occasion who was riding a 450.
Your K-Dub argument is way off. Listen to the latest RC podcast. He said he was on YouTube watching his '98 Supercross season and almost felt embarrassed as to how slow he was going back then. He also elaborated on how much the sport evolved from when he entered the pro ranks in '97, and when he left in 2007; along with how he constantly had to step up his game throughout the years. K-dub has been doing the same thing...
"God Bless Two-Strokes, and God Bless John Wayne."
Hank_Thrill
Posts: 1649
Joined: 9/22/2008
Location: OK, USA
52 minutes ago
Edited Date/Time: 45 minutes ago
jmar wrote: Let's all face reality guys.
Some of you are as nostalgic about motorcycles as you are about your music.
"Man oh man, todays music sucks our old hair band stuff kicks ass".
Believe it or not, your or my generation is no more special that other generations.
Get over it, and yourselves and enjoy today's racing. If you can't do that then hang out at chickenlicks raceway live your form of reality and act as if you and your generation is something special.
It's all good either way.
My argument has nothing to do with motocross culture, music, art, or any other highly subjective experience. It has to do with the elements that make for close racing. For this sport to grow as much as some want it to, the racing must be close, exciting, and unpredictable. I could care less what cycle of engine people race, the big factor has to do with displacement size. Look at the 250 lites class last year, in supercross and outdoors, it was spectacular with tons of close racing.
This season in the 450 class has been great so far when the tracks have been easy. I hope they keep them that way so we can see some more close racing, and hopefully see all the top stars racing at the season finale.
"God Bless Two-Strokes, and God Bless John Wayne."
jmar
Posts: 11914
Joined: 2/11/2007
Location: Oklahoma City, OK USA
29 minutes ago
jmar wrote: Let's all face reality guys.
Some of you are as nostalgic about motorcycles as you are about your music.
"Man oh man, todays music sucks our old hair band stuff kicks ass".
Believe it or not, your or my generation is no more special that other generations.
Get over it, and yourselves and enjoy today's racing. If you can't do that then hang out at chickenlicks raceway live your form of reality and act as if you and your generation is something special.
It's all good either way.
Hank_Thrill wrote: My argument has nothing to do with motocross culture, music, art, or any other highly subjective experience. It has to do with the elements that make for close racing. For this sport to grow as much as some want it to, the racing must be close, exciting, and unpredictable. I could care less what cycle of engine people race, the big factor has to do with displacement size. Look at the 250 lites class last year, in supercross and outdoors, it was spectacular with tons of close racing.
This season in the 450 class has been great so far when the tracks have been easy. I hope they keep them that way so we can see some more close racing, and hopefully see all the top stars racing at the season finale.
Hank
Riders get better every year, and this years racing is as good as it's been in twenty + years.
Those videos posted in this thread show how far racing has come since then.
Jim Martin
