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Author Topic: tractioncontrol?  (Read 9525 times)

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Offline wintrader

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tractioncontrol?
« on: January 17, 2011, 08:36:09 AM »
I told you. Where does this all leads to? As i told you my brother prepares classic ferrari's for races. Those rich guys do the same thing. But motocross if not about this i hope.

What is next pneumatic valves, turbo's, desmodromic valves (works very good on small 4 strokes), longstroke engine or shortstroke engine for different tracs, carbon parts etc etc. What is the use of this?? Who for example needs a startengine on his 2 stroke?

Is was all that easy with the 2 strokes. The big factories are destroying their own market.

And does all this make you faster?

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Offline DESERTFOX19

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2011, 04:35:19 PM »
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Offline MyckMcClung

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2011, 04:48:56 PM »
NOPE
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If a pair of 2" brass balls isn't working, I doubt that the 3" model will make much difference.

Offline factoryX

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 05:03:37 PM »
isn't a motor going twice as slow a form of traction control?  ;D
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I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline 2smoker

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 05:26:04 PM »
AMA Road series had a big drama going on for years with Team Suzuki / Yosh with Mladin using TC without being legal.. But AMA never did anything because they were the show! AMA is all about the show! No wonders all Manufacturers pull out of the series.. They also had some displacement cheating  problems going on with the BUELL . AMA is such a great organization. TC should be a great idea for 2 stroke!  What is next for the 4 stroke? Power assisted steering??? LOL they keep getting bigger every years!
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Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2011, 08:54:39 PM »
Wouldn't traction control really mess you up in MX, though?  I mean, there's a lot of slideways action going on, even if it's not for very long and it seems to me that an electronic system that says, "No, you can't have power now" could be seriously dangerous if you're in a situation where you need to hang the back end out for whatever reason.  Personal opinion, I think TC can be a great tool on tarmac but a disaster for loose-surface racing.  Just imagine rally racing with no wheel spin!
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Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline riffraff

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2011, 09:05:37 PM »
Stewart had some kind of fancy electronic gizmo on his bike at Phoenix, when asked about it he beat around the bush and said you people were just seeing things (After races interview on speed.com)
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aaahhhhh yes, I remember the good old days

Offline SachsGS

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2011, 09:12:34 PM »
In an offroad situation traction control would reduce wheelspin not eliminate it and would really help 2ts.
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Offline JETZcorp

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 09:19:25 PM »
I suppose if calibrated properly it could be quite good.  Sort of a limited-slip traction control rather than the minivan-style "thou shalt not spin ever" traction control.  My opinion is, they should allow the system into racing, just so long as it is unmodified from what's sold on stock production motorcycles.  That way if Yamaha wants James Stewart to have a sort of electronic Jesus on his side, they have to sell it to everyone else as well.  If they want it to be adjustable, then they make it adjustable on the stock bike.  If the system proves too expensive or unreliable or whatever for consumers, they'll buy fewer Yamahas and the company will either get rid of the feature or make an attempt to fix whatever's wrong with it.
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Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline 2T Institute

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 11:07:09 PM »
Quote from: 2smoker on January 17, 2011, 05:26:04 PM
AMA Road series had a big drama going on for years with Team Suzuki / Yosh with Mladin using TC without being legal.. But AMA never did anything because they were the show! AMA is all about the show! No wonders all Manufacturers pull out of the series.. They also had some displacement cheating  problems going on with the BUELL . AMA is such a great organization. TC should be a great idea for 2 stroke!  What is next for the 4 stroke? Power assisted steering??? LOL they keep getting bigger every years!

The problem was more that the AMA were powerless to stop the use of traction control. As Bazaaz(sp ?) had found a way of hacking the ECU and installing a PREDICTIVE algorithm for traction controll. In other words the bike 'learned' as it went around the track, then quickly 'forgot' everything on the cool down lap. So any testing post race would so a stock standard Gixxer 1000 ecu. Very Very clever.

Traction controll is not so easy on a mx bike, a road bike(or car) is simple stuff a algorithm that compares front and rear wheel speeds , so when X = > YYYHz cut fuel to cyl No1. A dirt bike the front wheel is rarely on the ground which makes thing difficult, but I thik it could be done with predictive software. All traction control systems have a range to work on 1-10 most MotoGP riders use 4-5 (Casey Stoner about 3.5) as they need a certain amount of wheel spin to turn the bike.
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Offline pontiac252

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2011, 11:29:25 PM »
I'm starting to dislike all types of professional racing.
Very few racing organisations have the capacity to stop this stuff, carbed or EFI :'(
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Offline westsiderippa

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2011, 11:37:51 PM »
in case anyone is not up to date with the topic....

James Stewart 2011 Supercross Traction Control debat plus wreck
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Offline westsiderippa

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 11:38:41 PM »
1.14 Telemetry and Traction Control
a. Electronic devices designed specifically for traction control are
prohibited. This includes sensors that can determine front
wheel speed, and any electronic control to the brake systems.
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Offline EJ

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 04:07:46 AM »
I don't really like these electronic F1-style gizmo's.
It should be all about the rider/bike combo. In 10 years from now
even a monkey can ride the best bike.

Speaking of future riders:
I think Honda is working on a new type of ASIMO mx robot rider.
They won't have to pay Asimo to ride a CRF450. And if his microchip brain somehow
mis-calculates and crashes, there will be a whole line of spare robots waiting to finish the race.
This gives Honda more chances to win the championship, and to rule the industry...~!
Human-like robots are big buisness for these japanese OEM's.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 04:13:01 AM by EJ »
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Offline ford832

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Re: tractioncontrol?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2011, 04:16:52 AM »
Much ado about nothing as far as I can see.It's almost guaranteed it's just data acquisition.Honda did it for years on their CR's.
In order to be a traction control system it would have to be hooked up through the trans in order to have a way to regulate traction.It would then require a suitable cpu to run it as well as related wiring and such.As far as that goes,slipper clutches are a form of traction control(for that matter,what about a Rekluse?) but to do it electronically would require a solenoid of some sort to slip the clutch in low traction situations.If it was an ABS system,it would require a cpu as well and a pump set up to regulate brake pressure.Because MX sometimes requires one to slip,slide and spin,the chances anyone will try to gear up an electronic traction control system is slim to none-and it's unlikely anyone would want the weight penalty-or a slipping clutch on a 4t.
If it's not data acquisition,it wouldn't surprise me  if it did nothing at all other than to try to get into the heads of the other riders and teams.In Pro racing,it wouldn't be the first time.
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