Messages

46

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 17, 2011, 07:51:19 AM »

Na i'd hate it to run like a 4banger, the things that i love about my 2T are exactly the things that make it harder to turn consistent fast laps, ie snappy brutal power delivery = fun but doesn't = fast lap times.
I love the challenge and excitement of riding a 2t. I love throwing roost and doing wheelys, hooking up and launching smoothly from corner to corner with an ultra flat powercurve doesn't interest me. Although thats the way to fast laps and winning races, it's BORING.
I also love the light weight and no engine braking.
I'll still maintain though that with the standard of new gen 4's what it is they're the fastest way round the MX track for most people.
I gave a young 250f rider a blast on my CR awhile back and his reaction was, i love the power that things fast as but there's no way i could ride it as hard all day as i can my250F.

\
Thanks man.

Vintage, you hurt my feelings.    Not really, I'm harsh.  LOL.  But I would rather get to the point. It's taken pages to get the truth out of some, and the truth gets shaded throughout those pages.  One thing you will never see me do, is start with name calling or going personal, like most others.  I just tell it like it is.  I try to use facts to prove something. Go through some profiles and look at what I speak of. Like saying I'm on a medical M card.  Idiot was a post by someone recently.

47

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 17, 2011, 04:17:00 AM »

Im not even touching that one lol. And in MX the thing in everyones head is traction

You don't have a clue. That's exactly what the people sending their motors to me and to Pro Circuit say, don't worry about peak power, just make me more traction.  I don't see too many runnning heavy fly wheel weights on their mx bikes, now do you?  If it was all about traction, then they would all have a flywheel weight on their 250 2 stroke.  Everyone wants more power, from bottom to top. That's what they want. Not one has said, I want more traction. LMFAO

TotalNZ, do you run the smoothest power switch always, and flywheel weight on your 300?  If not, why? I can detune it to run like a 300cc 4 stroke if you want. If not, tell us why you wouldn't want it to run like a 4 stroke 300cc. Thanks in advance for your insight.

48

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 17, 2011, 12:19:30 AM »

That's some good info Miedoso.   On the flip side of the coin, do you think any of the latest and greatest chassis or suspension tech that has hit the dealer floor in the last few years helped feed that thought (that thumpers hookup better), or has that tech kind of been plateauing? 

I'm honestly curious, not trolling.  I've been out of the latest bike tech for nearly 10 years.  Since thumpers hit the scene, really.

- and TS, I totally agree    I'd ride a thumper before an e-bike.

Some things to think about. The 4 strokes have tracks specifically made for them.  If you would take a 1996 SX track and have 250 2 strokes and 450Farts on the same track, the 450F would have problems.  There are very few 180 turns anymore, mostly 90 degree.  I've noticed a big difference on local mx tracks as well. The ruts build outside, and very few inside lines.  As you see in the amateurs, the number of 2 strokes increase per race, you will see more passing going on.  The 2 strokes will cut inside of the 4 strokes, but the 4 strokes will gain in other places on the tracks. Like I've said, wait some years, and things will look different. 4 strokes took from 1998ish to almost 2005ish to be in charge. That's a lot of years.  I'd ride a electric bike tomorrow.  Back yard tracks. Electric will be a substitute bike, not a conversion like the 4 strokes that were forced on us.

49

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 09:23:32 PM »

Not to derail things, but I hear it said that 4-strokes have better traction than two-strokes.  I've heard it said it's because of the power-every-other-revolution thing; it allows the rear tire time to bite.

I cant help but wonder; what does that mean for the electric bikes in the not very distant future?  As most know, electric motors have instant-on, instant-linear-torque, now - from 0-RPM.  No power pulses.  Will they be a handful because of their very smooth power delivery?

I totally disagree with people, when they say that. It is the way we set the bikes up, inwhich they don't get traction.  I have modded 2 strokes at the same cc's as 4 strokes, and they ran exactly like the 4 stroke.  No wheel spin, and no powerband.  Unfortunately, in MX, everyone has this thing in their head saying max power. The 250 2 stroke has more torque and hp all the way up the range. Take that down to equal a 250F, by stiffling it, and it will run exactly like the 250F.  Then the guys who love the 250F will hate the 250 2 stroke.  They will say it's slow and it doesn't run right.  Even though it is identical to that of the 4 stroke.  It's so idiotical. I've sent this setup info to MXA, but most likely will never hear about it again in the mag. 

50

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 06:56:11 PM »

" I don't know that I like the 250 four-strokes in the 125 class. It is too much of an advantage. They are double the size of our KX125's. Double! The legal four-strokes in the 250 class aren't double. The legal four strokes in the 80 class aren't double. You need to find a happy medium, and 250 ain't it. They are going to keep getting better, too. Right now, the 125's can run with them with momentum and speed in the corners, but what happens when you get behind them is that they slow down in the corners because they don't corner as well. They squirt the first ten or twenty feet, and then you have to try and run them down. That's hard. They get great starts too because of their traction. They have a big advantage here. You get little kids getting off an 80cc bike and they'll have to go to a 250. It is too big for tham, too heavy and they can't start the things. All the manufacturers are working on them, and unfortunately we'll all be racing them in a few years."


Quoted in MXA, Sept. 2001.

51

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 05:43:42 PM »

http://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Meet-Mitch-Payton,989/GuyB,64

52

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 03:58:03 PM »

The 2 stroke motors were even cheaper for PC themselves.  Mitch has to outsource much of the parts he uses on the 4 strokes.  Thus the price.  He said that he has to have a crap load of anything made, then if it is wrong, or doesn't work like he hoped, they just got trashed and had to order new stuff.  The cool thing about 2 strokes, that most engine builders could port them.  I know Jackson Performance was well known in the Iowa- Illin area, and people up there didn't like PC port jobs, because off the assembly line at PC, they just did a couple grinds here and there, but didn't do full on porting unless your name was RC.  Things like that, plus a full port job was like $900 or something like that, and that was even from PC.  No one can do the motors like PC on 4 strokes, because they don't have the access to all the specialty makings, unless they want to throw out a whole lot of dough in hopes they don't get the first batch wrong.  

53

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: Proof of what we say, if all manufacturers made 2 strokes.

« on: August 16, 2011, 01:52:40 PM »

I think you guys all got off track here.  Who cares about all that stuff you just chatted about. In MX it comes down to on the track.  The videos all over Youtube show that cc vs cc is very fair racing.  The 4 strokes still are winning all over, but there are more and more 2 strokes coming back.  So from the beginning of this post, when it was stated cc vs cc is equal. I agree.  Maybe not on your charts or calculators, but in the real world.  Neither one of them are whooping up on eachother.  But what my point was, that for cost and other reasons, when someone has to go out and purchase their own bike and pay for parts etc, they chose 2 strokes if they could.  They weren't any faster than they were if they chose the 4 stroke, but they probably have a lot more money in their pockets.  

54

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 01:36:35 PM »

I was never taking a shot at you miedosoracing, i respect your opinion and i hear what you're saying.
The point i guess i was trying to make is that if you're racing to win, under the current rules and regime
you'd be faster on a fourbanger. Yes that sucks and no thats not fair.

That's cool, But this guy is in open or age classes, so it doesn't matter what cc's he runs. Many of us here now, have cc vs cc rules.  My whole problem with him bringing up the 2 vs 4 stroke in his argument, was that he was trying to say he didn't qualify because he was on a 2 stroke, but with facts, have shown it was because he was on an old bike and was trying to compare it to an atleast 10 year newer KX450F, which wasn't fair. I was also showing that 4 strokes when they let go, cost too much to repair, which he proved as well. I was only trying to show facts. I'm out again.

55

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 04:08:50 AM »

Does it really matter who was riding when the motor broke a rod? He was the owner of it at the time it took the dump, inwhich he's never had happen 

Yes, in the post your referring to he was talking about racing one. Go back and read it again.

  really?  Thats what your gonna go with?  So if i've blown 90 2 stroke motors for example, but it didnt happen while racing, i dont include that when i state, ive never had a 2 stroke motor take a dump on me? Im out. This is becoming funny. Sad, but funny.

56

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 03:48:27 AM »

Man, opinions are rife here. Sorry, but the kx500 motor is not breaking the frame. The builder, is the only one who would be at fault. I do not see service honda bikes breaking frames.  Just home builders. None of my frames have broke on my cr500af's. Does it really matter who was riding when the motor broke a rod?  It is the exact reason we speak about the 4 chokes here.  The value after blown is less than the rebuild it would take to make it run again. He was the owner of it at the time it took the dump, inwhich he's never had happen.

57

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 03:37:55 AM »

ive raced LL 14 times one B class and the rest A class on a dr4,rm2,rm2,ktm2,ktm2,ktm2,yam2,yam4,yam4,ktm4,ktm4,ktm,ktm4,ktm4   2 or 4 =stroke (for you slow people) soooo i know how to switch gears ,iam not stuck in the past,the 360 was my all time favorite bike which is why i tryed on it last yr.  i have never had a thumper take a DUMP on me! but have had two strokes do it. cranks and piston locating pins !! I ONLY RACED 4 times and practiced 3 time before LL and 2 of them wher quailifiers ,and borrowed a bike after i was at the regional(kx450f) never rode it before ,won the +40 and got 7th in the +35 at RED BUD look it up!!! i found this site when i had my 360 thought it was cool but starting to think some of you are  actually some ones wifes   

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General Two Stroke Talk / Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people

« on: August 16, 2011, 03:34:54 AM »

360   was   faster   then   250f   but   had   sold   the   360 (trying to type slow so you will understand!!) bought   a   blown   450   (bad   head) replaced   head   then   rod   broke  ,only   rode   250f    3times   befor   ridin  450 (borrowed)
at  redbud. How many   mains have you made???  i raced pro also just didnt list it i had a license
for 3 yrs only tryed to Q around here made 1 main Troy Ohio ,so  like i said some where else on this site if two people that are the same speed the guy on the thumper will win    even Dubach says it in the new ama book

maybe instead of worrying if i am understanding, you should proof read so we dont see discreps. What happened to "i've never had a 4 stroke take a dump" or something like that. Im on my phone so cant go back and quote exactly. Isnt a broken rod a dump? So sounds like when the rod broke the 4 stroke was worth more in parts than rebuilding it due too cost?  just sayin...

59

General Two Stroke Talk / Re: Proof of what we say, if all manufacturers made 2 strokes.

« on: August 15, 2011, 11:16:34 PM »

Thanks.

But wouldn't you also agree that 250=250 is a fair class structure to have.
I have been slammed on here before about its not fair.
That race proves it.

Are you asking me?  Umm, I'm pretty sure I've NEVER slammed anyone for saying that is fair.  Have pointed out multiple times here and Vital, that the 250 2 stroke isn't gonna win in pro class still, because the fast guys will still be on the 4 strokes.  But atleast it gives the normal guy a chance to compete on a level playing field without having to spend thousands on a PC motor or rebuilds.  I've even asked DC to allow the 2 strokes to just be completely bone stock in the motor. He said they would not be able to protect from cheaters. etc etc etc.  I'd like to compare a big bore non ported 250F bike against the HP from a PC bike. If I was a 35th guy, I'd have to ask myself, is it really cheating with a big bore, compared to a PC bike?  I'd love to see a completely stock pro class.

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General Two Stroke Talk / Re: Proof of what we say, if all manufacturers made 2 strokes.

« on: August 15, 2011, 10:14:07 PM »

Not sure what you are getting at.
Enlighten me.

The fact that when the riders in this class had a choice, they chose the 250 2 stroke over the 4 stroke.  The orange and blue bikes I saw were 2 strokes.