Everyone questions the two stroke decision

[scotty dog]

Bottom line is ANY bike new or old has to be maintained in order to last .


I would seriously love to know what "components" are made better from the 90's to current .

Agreed. Metal fabrication hasn't gone anywhere in about 30 years to the best of my knowledge. The most recent ground breaking advancement in particle physics was the super colider and that doesn't make bikes

It was just a guess that components were made a bit better these days, but im no expert and im not a pro so probably know fuck all anyway 

[TotalNZ]

Bottom line is ANY bike new or old has to be maintained in order to last .


I would seriously love to know what "components" are made better from the 90's to current . My 21 yr old cr125 is making my o3 rm look more and more overated everytime I ride it .   My lap times have gotten better since riding the oldie and it dosent need new parts everytime I turn around unlike the suzuki.  I spoke with a  well known pro that raced and won in the 90's at my local track last night about this matter and he laughed and asked how many people claiming older bikes are cheap crap raced pro and actually won races ?  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> And said his early 90's rm's were some of his favorite bikes period .

You've gotta be kidding wanting to know what components, wasn't that long ago steel bars were stock, not to mention shitty stock footpegs that used to crush up easy much better on new bikes, YZ's even have titanium. Which brings me to suspension, worlds apart from the 90's to today.
The only real factor in making my 94 CR slower than my TM or another modern bike is the suspension, suspension and brakes.

[MetalMike1982]

Bottom line is ANY bike new or old has to be maintained in order to last .


I would seriously love to know what "components" are made better from the 90's to current . My 21 yr old cr125 is making my o3 rm look more and more overated everytime I ride it .   My lap times have gotten better since riding the oldie and it dosent need new parts everytime I turn around unlike the suzuki.  I spoke with a  well known pro that raced and won in the 90's at my local track last night about this matter and he laughed and asked how many people claiming older bikes are cheap crap raced pro and actually won races ?  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> And said his early 90's rm's were some of his favorite bikes period .

You've gotta be kidding wanting to know what components, wasn't that long ago steel bars were stock, not to mention shitty stock footpegs that used to crush up easy much better on new bikes, YZ's even have titanium. Which brings me to suspension, worlds apart from the 90's to today.
The only real factor in making my 94 CR slower than my TM or another modern bike is the suspension, suspension and brakes.

My 2003 rm came stock with steel bars . Bars and foot pegs arent cheap and replaceable I guess .   Suspension is better on the new bikes but NOT worlds apart .  As for a tm I have no idea never ridden one .

I'm not at all arguing the fact that bikes have improved over the years but a determined rider on an older bike can still go fast without worring about the bike falling apart or folding up as it's being ridden .   Pretty large grey area between slightly out dated and complete pos thats not worthy of riding .  Thats all I'm sayin

[snook620]

The only thing I can think of that may help a newer engine last longer would be tighter tolerances during the manufacturing process of the parts being used in it. Im no engineer but surely new parts being made today are harder or atleast made better than they were over a decade ago.

[TotalNZ]

Bottom line is ANY bike new or old has to be maintained in order to last .


I would seriously love to know what "components" are made better from the 90's to current . My 21 yr old cr125 is making my o3 rm look more and more overated everytime I ride it .   My lap times have gotten better since riding the oldie and it dosent need new parts everytime I turn around unlike the suzuki.  I spoke with a  well known pro that raced and won in the 90's at my local track last night about this matter and he laughed and asked how many people claiming older bikes are cheap crap raced pro and actually won races ?  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> And said his early 90's rm's were some of his favorite bikes period .

You've gotta be kidding wanting to know what components, wasn't that long ago steel bars were stock, not to mention shitty stock footpegs that used to crush up easy much better on new bikes, YZ's even have titanium. Which brings me to suspension, worlds apart from the 90's to today.
The only real factor in making my 94 CR slower than my TM or another modern bike is the suspension, suspension and brakes.

My 2003 rm came stock with steel bars . Bars and foot pegs arent cheap and replaceable I guess .   Suspension is better on the new bikes but NOT worlds apart .  As for a tm I have no idea never ridden one .

I'm not at all arguing the fact that bikes have improved over the years but a determined rider on an older bike can still go fast without worring about the bike falling apart or folding up as it's being ridden .   Pretty large grey area between slightly out dated and complete pos thats not worthy of riding .  Thats all I'm sayin

Yeah i agree, i raced my 94 CR with pretty good success against late model bikes.
I still say the suspension on 90's bikes is worlds apart from the new stuff. I over jumped a big double the other day and the TM sucked it up so well, i would've just about broken the CR in half and definately ate shit.
My TM's got 50mm marzocchi's and an ohlins shock so it's pretty good.
I'd never say a bikes a pos just cause it's from the 90's though, i love my CR.

[scotty dog]

Bottom line is ANY bike new or old has to be maintained in order to last .


I would seriously love to know what "components" are made better from the 90's to current . My 21 yr old cr125 is making my o3 rm look more and more overated everytime I ride it .   My lap times have gotten better since riding the oldie and it dosent need new parts everytime I turn around unlike the suzuki.  I spoke with a  well known pro that raced and won in the 90's at my local track last night about this matter and he laughed and asked how many people claiming older bikes are cheap crap raced pro and actually won races ?  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> And said his early 90's rm's were some of his favorite bikes period .

You've gotta be kidding wanting to know what components, wasn't that long ago steel bars were stock, not to mention shitty stock footpegs that used to crush up easy much better on new bikes, YZ's even have titanium. Which brings me to suspension, worlds apart from the 90's to today.
The only real factor in making my 94 CR slower than my TM or another modern bike is the suspension, suspension and brakes.

My 2003 rm came stock with steel bars . Bars and foot pegs arent cheap and replaceable I guess .   Suspension is better on the new bikes but NOT worlds apart .  As for a tm I have no idea never ridden one .

I'm not at all arguing the fact that bikes have improved over the years but a determined rider on an older bike can still go fast without worring about the bike falling apart or folding up as it's being ridden .   Pretty large grey area between slightly out dated and complete pos thats not worthy of riding .  Thats all I'm sayin

Yeah i agree, i raced my 94 CR with pretty good success against late model bikes.
I still say the suspension on 90's bikes is worlds apart from the new stuff. I over jumped a big double the other day and the TM sucked it up so well, i would've just about broken the CR in half and definately ate shit.
My TM's got 50mm marzocchi's and an ohlins shock so it's pretty good.
I'd never say a bikes a pos just cause it's from the 90's though, i love my CR.

Definately not, i seen a picture of an 89 YZ 250 with the Ohlins 360 kit, i want one of them too now 
this beast...

[Stusmoke]

Thats an awesoem YZ righ there. As for bikes making the changes to suspension and small things like handle bars, foot pegs etc? All the small things my friends... If you're trying to decide between lets say a 2005 CR 125 and 2005 YZ125. To the best of my knowledge those bikes are very similar in most scenarios. But if one had narrow and fragile footpegs, dodgey triple clamps, steel handlebars crappy wheels, crappy cables a stupid seat people are gonna go for the other one 9/10 times. All the small things make a big difference so when one manufacturer started having good clamps good footpegs aluminum handlebars etc etc then the others have to do so just to survive. Its the motorcycle equivalent of natural selection

[VintageBlueSmoke]

Beg to differ, think you are wrong there. Sure, stock suspensions are better now than in the past but the "better" is usually in the ability to tune them. Suspensions have worked basically the same since Simons and Fox developed the cartridge fork in the '80's. Fox Air shocks from the '80's perform just as well as today's - even twin shocks.

I was out this weekend on my (new to me) KTM. I could barely ride it around our track. Even though the oil level and spring rates were correct for me, the initial part of the stroke was too harsh. A few minutes at the truck and I had it all dialed in. All my buddies, wanting to try the 2-stroke thought the suspension was the best they had ridden.

That is very different from when I went out there with my '80 Can-Am. With that, I had to take it back to the shop to disassemble, change the oil and change the nitrogen pressure to get it close. All done, the Can-Am works just as well as the almost 30 year newer KTM.

I then rode the 250F of one of those buddies and gave up after one lap. Not that it was a 4$, but that all those knobs and adjustments must have confused him. I'd take the Can-Am of that anyday!

[TotalNZ]

Beg to differ, think you are wrong there. Sure, stock suspensions are better now than in the past but the "better" is usually in the ability to tune them. Suspensions have worked basically the same since Simons and Fox developed the cartridge fork in the '80's. Fox Air shocks from the '80's perform just as well as today's - even twin shocks.

I was out this weekend on my (new to me) KTM. I could barely ride it around our track. Even though the oil level and spring rates were correct for me, the initial part of the stroke was too harsh. A few minutes at the truck and I had it all dialed in. All my buddies, wanting to try the 2-stroke thought the suspension was the best they had ridden.

That is very different from when I went out there with my '80 Can-Am. With that, I had to take it back to the shop to disassemble, change the oil and change the nitrogen pressure to get it close. All done, the Can-Am works just as well as the almost 30 year newer KTM.

I then rode the 250F of one of those buddies and gave up after one lap. Not that it was a 4$, but that all those knobs and adjustments must have confused him. I'd take the Can-Am of that anyday!

Yep no doubt the old stuff is plush but i'm talking MX on modern tracks with big jumps and high speed g outs, no way your old school fox twin shocks gonna perform as well as modern suspension.
I'm talking 90's to today even,  you can hit much bigger obstacles alot faster with new suspension.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

I don't know, I run mid-pack on today's tracks against younger men on modern bikes with that old Can-Am. I do all the jumps and attack the track just like they do.

What I miss from newer bikes is the easy clutches and disc brakes.

[TotalNZ]

I don't know, I run mid-pack on today's tracks against younger men on modern bikes with that old Can-Am. I do all the jumps and attack the track just like they do.

What I miss from newer bikes is the easy clutches and disc brakes.

Well you've got me there, just cause i'm slower on my old bike doesn't mean everyone is. I'm thinking you're quite the talented rider though.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

Really? No. I don't think so. I was mid pack when the bike was new! I was a slow mid pack A rider in GNCC's and National Hare Scrambles and slow AA in local events...back in the late '90's and early '00's. I've never progressed beyond that.

I just think too many riders put too much emphasis on the machine. In the local races, I reckon that I could improve my lap times from my Can-Am by:

1 second (per lap) for using a modern engine (no performance fade at the end of the moto)
1 second (per lap) for having a modern (easy pull) clutch - I often don't use the clutch in the corners...just too tired.
2 second (per lap) for disk brakes

That alone would put me in the top 5 with occasional podiums. Give me more adjustment to better tune the suspension, and I might be able to prolong my racing well into my 50's.

[MetalMike1982]

 I remimber a youtube video that I watched a few years ago that was filmed at my local track of an entire gate of modern 4 strokes with one insane individual on a old school yz465 lined up . The 465 shot out front right from the gate drop and won the race , the guy was clearing every double,tabletop out there and not looking back .  I wanna say the bike could have been as old as 79 or 80 and he was haulin ass


Im gonna try and find it so I can post it .

[luthier269]

Mike where in Florida do you live? Last year we were at Dade City MX and Tim Early who is an old local pro raced a 1981 YZ465 he is about 50 and hole shot the start against  new 450's led most of the race but a nut fell of of the head and the head gasket stated to leak so he puled off. There is a sandy woop section in the back and the YZ just flew threw them.

[Super Trucker]

I had a 1987 CR125 the 1st year with a rear disk brake. I know I could be competive today on one, because I beat 30 500 2-st at  the races,even at a deep old school sand track that had  steep hills. When I was practicing on 4 foot whoops 4-5th gear pinned, the shock blew up, the nitrogen piggyback was under the seat that year, it cracked  all the way threw. So I put a white power shock on it, big improvement. It was my 1st mx bike,bought it in  89  rode the hell out of that bike year round, yes in the snow too. I  just did topends, never replaced the clutch plates or the crank bearings, but I changed trans.oil every ride and ran 110 leaded fuel, new honda piston every 10 hrs or less. The guy I bought it from said they competed in hill climbs, the cylinder was ported by NSR north shore racing, they built engines for the GP guys. In 92 I bought a new RM 125 a great bike, didn,t pull like the 87 tho.