Service Honda 500AF vs. CRF450

[MXLord327]

I was poking around today and found this article - still decent even with my Honda Hater mentality lately...  I just wish they let the testers have a few days to learn how to ride a 2-stroke again before comparing lap times!!  That 500AF sure does look sweet....

http://easterndirt.com/stories/500af/pages/service_1.html

[JohnN]

That is a very nice online magazine!!

Interesting article, but as you said, they usually test two vs four with guys who have been racing four-strokes for a long period of time. They have very little time on two-strokes. Worse yet, there is a few important techniques for riding/racing a 500cc two-stroke quickly around a motocross track.

Something that you can not know unless you've been around these beasts for a while or have a buddy that told or showed you the way...

My illusion is that someone with riding experience on a 500cc two-stroke that understood those technques could get around the track 2 to 3 seconds a lap than an experienced four-stroke racer....

But that's just me! 

[JETZcorp]

I like how they said 250 vs 250F would be unfair because of the horsepower advantage, then they go and bring out a bike that's got an even bigger horsepower advantage.  It's a weird sort of logic.

On a side-note, I was snooping around that site, when I found a link to this project to make a documentary about the 1980 Carlsbad USGP race.  For the young ones out there, (lol) the 1980 Carlsbad race was the first time the world-championship-series US Grand Prix race was won by an American, Marty Moates.  Everyone thought Brad Lackey would be the first to make an outright win at Carlsbad, but it turned out to be a local privateer who wiped out the Europeans (though he wasn't contending for world championship points.)

If you missed the race when it happened, you can watch some Carlsbad races (not the 1980 one anymore, though) at the link below.  It's a great opportunity to see what a racing field of open-class two-stroke works bikes looked like.
http://motorbikearchives.com/Video-Gallery/High-Resolution/1981-500cc-Motocross-USGP.html

[Turquine]

John is correct, MXLord. In fact, from links I found on this site, there is a test where the CR500 AF beats the CRF450 in lap times, and another where the KX500AF beats the KXF450 in lap times. It was interesting to me that in the test you posted, they considered the fast track one where third gear was often used, lol. To me, a fast track would have one in 5th gear often, but for now, I must go with the way things are. Anyhow, here are two other tests with the 2strokes winning on lap times found on this site --->

http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/service_honda_500af_vs_crf450.pdf

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/12/transworld-mx-service-kawasaki-kx500af-test/

[opfermanmotors]

"Whereas a 2t feels like you are making no power until you get to the power band at which point it feels like someone has flipped a switch to ignite a rocket ship. Very exciting but can be difficult to control."

I guess they never heard of Maico before.

[eprovenzano]

"Whereas a 2t feels like you are making no power until you get to the power band at which point it feels like someone has flipped a switch to ignite a rocket ship. Very exciting but can be difficult to control."

I guess they never heard of Maico before.

Based on that comment, I question if the writer actually rode the AF500. A 500 is really smooth, yes it has a "hit", but its pretty much power right off idle until you can't take it anymore.  A properly jetted 500 is easier to ride than most people think.  Yes they should be ridden with respect, as with that much horsepower at the snap of the throttle you can get into some trouble. A 500 is a bike you ride a gear high and let the torque of the engine do the work.

[miedosoracing]

The riders really praised this bike.  Very interesting. It even mentioned they had ridden the 4 strokes for years and just 1 day or so for this 500 and still just shy on speeds.  I will say from my own experience. You need a couple of days of riding to get used to it. But I personally am faster on that than I am on a 450. I had a current pro ride it the other day.  He was doing a 4 in and 2 out jump.  I was doing it 3 in 3 out. On his 450F, he said he was tapped just to get the 4 in.  After he rode my 500, he came back and we asked him. You think you could do 5 in?  He laughed and said, "dude that thing is so fast, I could do all 6, seriously."  Made my day. 

[maicoman009]

Enprovenzano is 100% correct about the 500cc. bikes having a smoother hit than one might think!Such as someone who has never ridden one before.Out of the five or six "open class" or big bore 2-stroke bikes I've owned or rode in the past NOT counting my 300xc which is considered a "big bore" 2-stroke but is more enduro/cross country oriented and does'nt have as much HP or torque as the likes of the 490's/495's of the past or the 500AF's made by Service Honda but like enprovenzano said those bikes do have a "hit" in the powerband and one has to exercise caution but with good throttle conteol & riding a gear high those 500cc. beast have tons of torque and are a pleasure to ride once you learn their power characteristics!

[JohnN]

Unlike many people that test these bikes or write on internet forums, I spent a great deal of time around the 500cc machines, as my best friend competed in the AMA Nationals in the late 1980's. While being his mechanic, I learned a great deal about how to ride these machines... I had good "teachers" to observe up-close and in person... you may have heard of some of them. Ricky Johnson, Ron Liechen, Jeff Ward, JMB, Jeff Stanton and many others...

There are some important techniques to riding these machines properly. Now for a little background, I consider myself a small bore kind of guy, just love the 125's and all the work required to make them go fast.

When first riding the CR500 you discover very quickly (if your paying attention) that you can not ride it like a 125 or 250 and expect to live or to have low lap times. You just make a lot of noise, destroy rear tires and tire yourself out.

These machines are tame little bunnies when ridden correctly!! How many people will actually say that?? LOL

To achieve this tame power delivery is simple, as soon as the bike starts pulling a little bit, shift up to the next gear. Yes it almost sounds like it's going to bog, but it just pulls. You go through the gears quickly and realize that you have arrived at the next corner carrying a great deal of speed, more than you had thought because the bike was not revving! So fast that it's almost impossible to slow down for the corner.

The bike I used was my best friends machine and he was amazed at how fast I was able to get around the track...

Now if you have test riders that are used to 450F's that rev to the moon, this style of riding would be counter intuitive. In a word they would never think about it. When ridden in this fashion, the CR500 is a scary monster and extremely difficult to get around the track safely, never mind quickly!!

Like miedosoracing has said, after a few days of riding these bikes, you realize that they have all the power you could ever want or need and that it is indeed easy to go fast. But you better be in good shape, because you have to really brake hard on these things and muscle them to change directions!

In a word... they are a BLAST!!

[Paul P]

Well put John.  I am a more 500 rider and by the sound of this article, I'm sure they were trying to ride it like a 125 at it's power peak, the completely wrong way to ride a 500. Keeping them a gear higher than a 250 and making them pull is key. The 450F's I tried all stall very easily if you don't use proper technique. Sure would be good to see a test where the riders were all 2 stroke riders comparing these bikes.
                 Paul

[burn1986]

Most of the testers of these bikes come away shocked and in disbelief at the amount of power of a 500. Its almost as if they forgot they are dealing with a 500 2-stroke - twice the power of a 250 which is close to the power of a 450F. If these bikes were tweaked as much as the 450s were they would be making an ungodly amount of horsepower. The beauty is that they don't need all the R&D or tweaking to be efficent and race-ready. They are capable of winning against a 450 with no modifications.

[JETZcorp]