Not many against the 2 stroke on TT

[CCOADY454]

Just a little thread I started at TT.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=917539

[JETZcorp]

Yes , that's the right approach. Equal cc's....... But? 2 450cc 2t would be a bit excessive.

Can I hear a b-b-b-bullshit?!  I think people assume that every two-stroke must have a power curve like a 125.  They see now ballistic that is, and then multiply that by four in their heads and start to get dizzy.  That's not how it's done (except the CR500, of course ).  And I think the argument that bigger displacement doesn't result in faster lap times, isn't a reason to give the axe to big displacement.  Yes, they can be more difficult to ride and give more power than you need.  But there's no reason that Group-B rally cars needed 650hp, either.  Drivers started saying it was too much, but DAMN it was entertaining to watch, and took balls of steel to drive.  That's the whole point.

I've said before, and will say again, that I think the classes need to be 125 - 250 - 500 - Open.  Open would really mean open, as in you can simply do anything you want.  Superchargers, turbochargers, Wankels, Jet Turbines, etc put in works bikes with no production minimum.  If someone thinks that mounting the motor from a Super Stock 'Cuda in a bike frame is going to give them the best lap times, they can go right ahead.  Absolutely no limits on the open class (except noise and anything else to comply with local ordinances applicable to the location), a true "run what ya brung" event.

[opfermanmotors]

Sure, by that logic you don't even need a 125.  You can race perfectly well on a mini bike with a 5 HP briggs and straton.  They go around the track just fine.

[JETZcorp]

Well, if you really want to extend that logic, just find the displacement that provides the lowest average lap times for an aggregate of riders and tracks, and then declare that it's the only class.  Doesn't make for very interesting racing.

[opfermanmotors]

Actually, don't even need a bike, just run around the track on foot.

Ya, people don't seem to understand that the whole purpose is for it to be harder, not easier or else everyone could do it.  The big bore class makes it tougher.

[SwapperMX]

Hey Jetz,

I'm with you. That is how the classes should be structured. No doubt about it. Sure, you went over the top describing it, but you got your point across. For me, the death of the 125 class has majorly impacted the sport !!!

[JETZcorp]

To clarify, while I think there should be a real open class, the rest of it should be more traditional.  The other classes should basically be run like they are now, except no preference for strokes, a better system of determining "production bikes" to include smaller factories, and maybe even getting rid of the silly rule requiring you have a new bike.  These will ensure that the general riding and buying public gets to reap the rewards of merciless competition between the bike makers.  The Open class is there for pure entertainment and publicity, just like Group-B.

[CCOADY454]

yeah, a detuned, mild 450 two stroke engine would still beat or tie an all out race prepped 450 four stroke (thousands less, and increased life on the engine, perfect for you, bad for the greedy big 4).  And by detuned, I mean lower peak HP, increased tourque curve.  Take a CR500 motor, and destroke it with a shorter throw crankshaft or just a smaller bore and tune it to take better advantage of the redesigned tracks.

[JETZcorp]

Who says it has to be 450?  I say let the four-strokes run up to 500cc against the CR500 the way it is.

[opfermanmotors]

Change displacement to be up to 700cc

[JETZcorp]

I'd put that in Open Class.  Der Maico 700 would probably take the open class for a year or two if my ideas were implemented five minutes from now, because I don't know what else is on-offer that's got that level of insanity at the moment.  Maybe someone might pull a Kenny Roberts and put a TZ750 motor in a YZ frame.  But hey, I wouldn't be opposed to a 750 class if people wanted to see it.

And to think, BMW thought at one point that a 700cc+ two-stroke single would be impossible.  HA!

[TMKIWI]

If it's a true open class nothing will stop someone like RC entering on a RM250.
Thats a "run what ya brung"

[JETZcorp]

Hey, if it turns out that an RM250 is the fastest motocross bike that is possible on the face of the planet, it'll win.  That's the cool thing about an open, or "anarchy" class of racing.  The absolute best possible combination of bike and rider will simply win.