Is there a link between the bike you choose to ride and intelect?

[JRod4928]

We all know that the professional MX/SX racers drive the market in this sport. Whatever they do, we all follow. And no professional is going to knowingly ride a 2T that has the same or less power output as a 4T, because it isnt as usable, so they're at a disadvantage. The AMA caters to manufacturers by making rules that forces amateurs to follow the trends set by the pros if they want to be competitive amongst their peers.

We as consumers can change the AMA's mind by showing the manufacturers that 2 strokes aren't dead. Keep buying 2 strokes. The AMA amateur rules are helping us, as the amateur displacement rules which allow for larger displacement 2 strokes to compete against 4 strokes (150's in the 250 4T class, etc). So we can still buy 2 strokes and be competitive.

Right now, KTM is doing the 2T a HUGE favor by selling 150 SX's and 300 SX's. Depending on your local rules, they're allowed in the 250 and 450 4T classes, respectively. As the 150 and 300's become more popular, the Japanese manufacturer will sell fewer 125's, and will have to build 150 and 300's that compete with KTM. Then you'll see more of a split between 2T and 4T on the amateur starting lines.

Then inevitibly, more and more young professional riders will come up through the ranks, racing 300's, and the AMA will have to adjust their rules.

It might take 5-10 years, but I think the 2 stroke will be back in AMA pro racing.

[citabjockey]

MXA just had a shootout between the TM300 and 250.  They loved the 300's power delivery.

We all know that the professional MX/SX racers drive the market in this sport. Whatever they do, we all follow. And no professional is going to knowingly ride a 2T that has the same or less power output as a 4T, because it isnt as usable, so they're at a disadvantage. The AMA caters to manufacturers by making rules that forces amateurs to follow the trends set by the pros if they want to be competitive amongst their peers.

We as consumers can change the AMA's mind by showing the manufacturers that 2 strokes aren't dead. Keep buying 2 strokes. The AMA amateur rules are helping us, as the amateur displacement rules which allow for larger displacement 2 strokes to compete against 4 strokes (150's in the 250 4T class, etc). So we can still buy 2 strokes and be competitive.

Right now, KTM is doing the 2T a HUGE favor by selling 150 SX's and 300 SX's. Depending on your local rules, they're allowed in the 250 and 450 4T classes, respectively. As the 150 and 300's become more popular, the Japanese manufacturer will sell fewer 125's, and will have to build 150 and 300's that compete with KTM. Then you'll see more of a split between 2T and 4T on the amateur starting lines.

Then inevitibly, more and more young professional riders will come up through the ranks, racing 300's, and the AMA will have to adjust their rules.

It might take 5-10 years, but I think the 2 stroke will be back in AMA pro racing.

[ford832]

These days,who would really want to ride a two stroke?Seriously.Think about it.

[TotalNZ]

stusmoke. your definately right they are easier to ride. however there have been numerous test indicating that riding a 4t vs 2t allows a rider to make less mistakes albiet not a faste lap--reference transworldmx.com 250 vs 250f a few years back.  and riding a 250f or 450 you still have to ride the top of the power. have you ever heard a pro race by that wasnt on the rev limit? and clearly you dont watch RV2 race cuz he uses the rear to get through turns so fast. even on a 4t you have to steer with the rear. however vs a 2t you get more front end traction due to the extra weight and slower engine speed not spinning the rear tire as quick.

look my point is this. this site sometimes sounds more like a bunch 4t hating Nazi's then someone who is trying to help the sport. I've been on both sides. ive ridden every brand and every current engine size. i love riding 4ts and 2ts and both have pros and cons. the biggest factor right now is COST plain and simple. and  this give the nod to 2ts. that is why we/this sport needs them. what is needed is OPTIONS. like auto racing there are options for the high budget team and the low budget weekender. however our sport needs the pro level to reflect this. i wrote all about changes i felt would help the sport.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/whats-the-change-you-wish-to-see-in-motosupercross/

Ok first of all, being at the top of the power on a 4 stroke and 2 stroke is a whole different universe. Four strokes can simply be taken a gear lower. You shift when you feel like it and use the clutch in rare instances during a race.

Secondly, I agree about people here sometimes getting a little excited about the 2 v. 4 argument. We're all guilty, myself included. But at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, todays definition of the four stroke motocross bike has NO place on a motocross track. Lets assume for a moment that you have a blank cheque for all your bikes. That takes costs out of the equation. And lets also assume that motocross around the world had the ridiculous rule of double displacement revoked. if its a 250, it gets run in the 250 class. Diesal, rotary, two stroke, four stroke, irrelevant.

What would you choose motoman? Would you choose the bike that didn't advance your skills very well, made you a lazy rider, wasn't as much fun to ride as its counterpart, harder to start (KTMs four strokes excluded here of course), made an obnoxious sound that carried a very long way, was heavier and slower?

you speak as though you race alot, do you? you also speak as though you have raced a 450 at a high level, have you?
alot of the statements you make are dead wrong. my friend who raced semi pro used to go through clutches just as fast on his 450 as he did on his 250 2t.

[_X_]

what the heck is semi pro totalnz?

[Stusmoke]

stusmoke. your definately right they are easier to ride. however there have been numerous test indicating that riding a 4t vs 2t allows a rider to make less mistakes albiet not a faste lap--reference transworldmx.com 250 vs 250f a few years back.  and riding a 250f or 450 you still have to ride the top of the power. have you ever heard a pro race by that wasnt on the rev limit? and clearly you dont watch RV2 race cuz he uses the rear to get through turns so fast. even on a 4t you have to steer with the rear. however vs a 2t you get more front end traction due to the extra weight and slower engine speed not spinning the rear tire as quick.

look my point is this. this site sometimes sounds more like a bunch 4t hating Nazi's then someone who is trying to help the sport. I've been on both sides. ive ridden every brand and every current engine size. i love riding 4ts and 2ts and both have pros and cons. the biggest factor right now is COST plain and simple. and  this give the nod to 2ts. that is why we/this sport needs them. what is needed is OPTIONS. like auto racing there are options for the high budget team and the low budget weekender. however our sport needs the pro level to reflect this. i wrote all about changes i felt would help the sport.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/whats-the-change-you-wish-to-see-in-motosupercross/

Ok first of all, being at the top of the power on a 4 stroke and 2 stroke is a whole different universe. Four strokes can simply be taken a gear lower. You shift when you feel like it and use the clutch in rare instances during a race.

Secondly, I agree about people here sometimes getting a little excited about the 2 v. 4 argument. We're all guilty, myself included. But at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, todays definition of the four stroke motocross bike has NO place on a motocross track. Lets assume for a moment that you have a blank cheque for all your bikes. That takes costs out of the equation. And lets also assume that motocross around the world had the ridiculous rule of double displacement revoked. if its a 250, it gets run in the 250 class. Diesal, rotary, two stroke, four stroke, irrelevant.

What would you choose motoman? Would you choose the bike that didn't advance your skills very well, made you a lazy rider, wasn't as much fun to ride as its counterpart, harder to start (KTMs four strokes excluded here of course), made an obnoxious sound that carried a very long way, was heavier and slower?

you speak as though you race alot, do you? you also speak as though you have raced a 450 at a high level, have you?
alot of the statements you make are dead wrong. my friend who raced semi pro used to go through clutches just as fast on his 450 as he did on his 250 2t.

Going through clutches is different to using the clutch to keep it on the powerband don't you think? Using the clutch to control wheelspin on hardpack surfaces under the insane torque of a 450 for example or keeping the front wheel down under hard acceleration. NOT dancing on the razorblade edge of a two strokes powerband.

[cnrcpla]

Using the clutch to control wheelspin on hardpack surfaces

Meh, just learn to drift  Hard pack terrain can be fun, if you know how to ride it. (just trying to lighten the mood over here to avoid a big argument that is impending)

[_X_]

have you seen this before cnrcpla? HA!

[cnrcpla]

have you seen this before cnrcpla? HA!

What a couple of people about to argue, no never. I mean we're on the internet, no one EVER argues on the internet... 

[Stusmoke]

Eh? Big argument? I'm not looking for a fight. Just trading opinions really. Tone is impossible to convey over just plain text but I'm not agitated in the slightest.

Using the clutch to control wheelspin on hardpack surfaces

Meh, just learn to drift  Hard pack terrain can be fun, if you know how to ride it. (just trying to lighten the mood over here to avoid a big argument that is impending)

It sure can. I used to have a ring of Rock hard black soil that I made with my back tire deliberately to learn my bikes traction breaking point. It is now in disarray because of a flood. Its not hard anymore lol. It was like a circle rut but hardpacked instead.

[_X_]

no worries stu, its all in fun. this is two stroke motocross right?

[ford832]

These days,who would really want to ride a two stroke?Seriously.Think about it.

Nobody?Ok,at least I get to quote myself 
Here's my take on it.

As a many year,multiple different 125 rider,I could easily hop on friends 250 2t's,4t's and 450's and at least make a workmanlike job of it.
After riding my 550 for a season,to hop on a 2t of any displacement was almost like trying to learn to ride a bike again.Though enjoyable,they were definitely spastic demonstrations until I broke myself of my 4t lazy habits.
Fourstrokes have been around long enough now that many of the younger generations coming up have never ridden a two stroke and to put a 125 or 250 2t in their hands and tell them to be competitive just ins't going to happen.Unless play riding,and even then,they will choose what they know.
Off road will hang on longer but unless things change soon,the window is going to close.

Btw,I saw my shadow this am.6 more weeks....

[SachsGS]

Many of the new offroad bikes being introduced are 2T. Consumers are a fickle bunch and could just as easily revert back to 2T as stay with 4T$. 2Ts have an enormous  cost advantage and the right DI bike could send them all scurrying back.

Not so fast you rodent Ford!   www.edmontonsun.com/2013/02/02/wiarton-willie-predicts-on-groundhog-day

[Stusmoke]

These days,who would really want to ride a two stroke?Seriously.Think about it.

Nobody?Ok,at least I get to quote myself 
Here's my take on it.

As a many year,multiple different 125 rider,I could easily hop on friends 250 2t's,4t's and 450's and at least make a workmanlike job of it.
After riding my 550 for a season,to hop on a 2t of any displacement was almost like trying to learn to ride a bike again.Though enjoyable,they were definitely spastic demonstrations until I broke myself of my 4t lazy habits.
Fourstrokes have been around long enough now that many of the younger generations coming up have never ridden a two stroke and to put a 125 or 250 2t in their hands and tell them to be competitive just ins't going to happen.Unless play riding,and even then,they will choose what they know.
Off road will hang on longer but unless things change soon,the window is going to close.

Btw,I saw my shadow this am.6 more weeks....

This is true. One guess why I bought my 2005 CRF250R? Cos i'd never swung my leg over anything but four strokes. Well apart from my pw 80 and pw 50... But that doesn't count. I didn't even know they were two strokes until about a year ago lol.

[Formerly knownas Premixed]

These days,who would really want to ride a two stroke?Seriously.Think about it.

Nobody?Ok,at least I get to quote myself 
Here's my take on it.

As a many year,multiple different 125 rider,I could easily hop on friends 250 2t's,4t's and 450's and at least make a workmanlike job of it.
After riding my 550 for a season,to hop on a 2t of any displacement was almost like trying to learn to ride a bike again.Though enjoyable,they were definitely spastic demonstrations until I broke myself of my 4t lazy habits.
Fourstrokes have been around long enough now that many of the younger generations coming up have never ridden a two stroke and to put a 125 or 250 2t in their hands and tell them to be competitive just ins't going to happen.Unless play riding,and even then,they will choose what they know.
Off road will hang on longer but unless things change soon,the window is going to close.

Btw,I saw my shadow this am.6 more weeks....

This is true. One guess why I bought my 2005 CRF250R? Cos i'd never swung my leg over anything but four strokes. Well apart from my pw 80 and pw 50... But that doesn't count. I didn't even know they were two strokes until about a year ago lol.

a 2005 crf is an excellent (parts) bike.  best purchase I ever made.  I  got the 04-09 Showas for my 03 CR, they're getting revalved and redone now.