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Offline JohnN

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The future of mx? Electric?
« on: December 17, 2009, 08:36:29 AM »


I know that so many people don't like the idea, but on so many levels it is better than you first imagine.

And please let's not break out all the OLD stories about it will mean more coal plants, Nuclear Power Plants and all that stuff that is not well researched. Like it or not, many advances have been made in Solar and wind and it's making a difference. While it's a small part of the equation in 2009, it is the fastest growing sector of power generation.

In countries like Denmark, big parts of their country are supplied by power generated by wind. In the USA Texas and California is leading the way and is growing......

The good points of an electric bike? The noise or should we say the lack of noise! I know that I could put a track in my back yard and ride all day without upsetting anyone in the neighborhood. Not only that but I could probably hear my cell phone ringing on the deck!!  ;D
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Offline losec

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009, 09:52:58 AM »
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/off-road/2009/12/14/denmark-hosts-electric-enduro




Teaser Eco Enduro 09


It´s enduro, but still. It seemed to worked real good for those guys.
I never crash -I just make unexpected decelerations

Offline 2smoker

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 12:28:30 PM »
I am just laughing at everything electrical... Clean air but junk of batteries everywhere??  You need a combustion engine with feelings to it.. I don't want my dirt bike to feel like a Forklift lol... Hydrogen is the way to go......Bmw is getting there..

BMW HYDROGEN Technology 3D Animation
Jay Leno Speaks Out On behalf of BMW's Hydrogen Initiative
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:34:18 AM by John Nicholas »
Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline ford832

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 03:35:37 PM »
OK,I'll just say one thing on the AE thing.Hydrogen isn't really a clean power,it is to the end user but it has to be produced.As for electric,here in N.S.,roughly 92% of our electric comes from coal.Again,clean to the end user.

Cool technology but I'd miss the sound-maybe a hockey card in the spokes would do the trick ;)

Another thought never really occured to me until this spring.You read about electric bikes and how long they can go on a charge and how long to recharge and all that but it's a little more than that.Granted,this example isn't of the highest technology but by nature,would be much the same.Anyhoo,one of my daughters friends has an electric dirt bike(the name escapes me at the moment but maybe I can find a pic)This spring she came over to do some riding.Her bike is supposed to last an hour on charge and recharge in forty minutes.When compared to my daughters jr50,the power is nowhere close though top speed is similar-initially at least.Starting from a stop on a hill required foot pushing assistance even when fully charged.After about ten minutes,the power drop was noticeable and by about 40 min,it would hardly move-and took about 1.5 hrs to recharge(they took turns on the JR in the meantime)Just like a battery powered flashlight or radio,I'm sure a full sized bike would lose power like this as well.It's one thing to say it has all the power of an IC engine-but for how long?Something to think about that I never see mentioned anyway.






« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:35:34 AM by John Nicholas »
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Offline juliend

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 04:08:12 PM »
I'm a huge fan of electric power for several reasons, but the first being power. The brushless electric motor produces the same HP at any RPM unlike a combustion engine. For years I have been converting nitro and gas powered RC vehicles over to brushless electric motors. The whole thing is rather addictive once you get started, and the difference in performance of a scale vehicle is quite impressive after moving to the very smooth and VERY instant power of an electric setup.

My buddy is working with a golf car shop right now, and they mess around with some electric motors and controllers that would be well suited to a bike. My mind has been running wild with this for a while... Would love to use a 125 frame and build myself an electric. The issue for me is the price of the controller, and the cost of the power cells. I would most likely try and use lithium polymer or A123 cells. Not cheap, and there are limitations as far as the conditions they will perform well and be safe under. Most the golf cars are sporting lead acid batteries. Heavy and inefficient and probably not well suited to a bike IMO. The cars are running brushed motors too, which I don't understand. I guess brushless is cost prohibitive on a larger scale, but the increase in power and lower maintenance of the brushless motor is very appealing. I'm sure I could build a very decent performing bike if only I had the money to get started! I have some good plans in my head.



Offline JETZcorp

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 04:11:17 PM »
I know John doesn't want this to turn into alternative energy, but dammit, this is too important for us, perhaps more than any other product advocacy group, to avoid.  The future for motorized vehicles isn't hydrogen, nor is it battery power.  It's gasoline!

"JETZ, you're crazy," I hear you saying, "the supply of gasoline can't last forever, and we'll be giving all our money to Osama and those guys."

Aha, that's where you're wrong.  We can make all the fuel we need to run the country, right here in America (or wherever else people on this forum live.)  And, with this method, the fuel is carbon-neutral and requires no modification to existing vehicles to use.  I'm talking about algae biofuels.  Certain types of algae can be composed of as much as 60% oil, or more.  This oil can be used as a pseudo-crude from which you can create gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, lighter fluid, motor oil, plastic, household cleaners, and all that petroleum-based stuff.  And, you can go ahead and use existing refineries to do it.  All that's required to grow the algae is water, sunlight, and CO2.

Yup, that's right, CO2.  The more pollution you can feed the algae, the more fuel you can produce.  This is because your fuel is going to be largely carbon-based (just as it is now) and the algae get that carbon from the atmosphere.  If you think about it, the fuel we're drilling out of Saudi and Iraq and such was collected from the atmosphere by plants and things millions of years ago.  We are importing carbon from the past!  With an algae-based infrastructure, we'll be importing it from the present.  An algae farm outside Los Angeles feeds off car exhaust, the fuel gets burned, becomes car exhaust, gets eaten up by algae, gets burned, etc.  Pollution becomes a valuable resource for the creation of fuel.  Power Plants and other CO2 producing facilities will be able to capitalize on their pollution by developing means to capture the CO2 and shipping it to fuel farms to boost production.

FUEL Preview - Algae

This is revolutionary in engine design, because it's the only option I've seen that doesn't require a revolution.  You can keep your Hemi Roadrunner.  You can keep your two-stroke.  You can keep all of the things in your life that need fuel, but know that it's all carbon-neutral on an algae-centric fuel infrastructure.

And, perhaps best of all, it will put an end to all the Middle-East BS that's happening over oil.  Areas like Alabama, with lots of sunlight and water available (the algae is already growing there in the wild) will become the new world capital of fuel.  The big oil tankers are going to be filling their tanks in the Gulf of Mexico, and delivering their product in the Persian Gulf, rather than it being the other way about.

How long do you think it'll be before we start hearing about algae rights?

Edit:

John, you have to get rid of automatic censoring.  Three times, I had to remove the word s-u-c-k because it got replace with "not so good."  This led to phrases like, "The algae will be sucking carbon out of the atmosphere."  Seriously, this sucks!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 04:17:17 PM by JETZcorp »


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 05:25:48 PM »
As for electric anything...I went to an "electric" drag race. I personally, was unimpressed with the technology and the performance. Part of the experience for me is all the sensory overload. Standing on the starting line between two blown alcohol (or better yet, blown fuel) cars is stunning. Your vision blurs, the ground shakes and they accelerate so fast it's hard to explain. This will never occur with electric motors. Thank you to the inventors of the transmission. While electric "motors" make the same HP at any RPM, IC "engines" have a power curve. You will always be able to make more HP in a narrow RPM range than you can across a broad RPM. This is why a drag car will always go faster with a 5 speed that it will with a 4 speed (when chassis design and tuning are taken into account).

Again, I want the BRRRAAAAPPPPPP when I ride. I want what an electric motor will never be able to give. Head snapping acceleration. If I'm not being clear here, go out and plug in your drill motor. Then crack off your 2T dirt bike. I know the size is different, but the concept is the same.

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 06:32:41 PM »
Agreed.  Sound is a big part of what I like about internal combustion engines.  If it doesn't sound right, I don't want it.  That's part of what I dislike about 4T bikes - they sound like a massive, post-enchilada fart.  While an electric would be an acceptable "back-yard-bike" I think that for racing or woods work it's gotta be gas.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline JohnN

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 06:39:27 PM »
Jetz - you don't like that a vacuum can suck?? :o Or that Rosy O'Donnell is gay?  :-*

Well I may have to modify some of the auto filtering..... I just don't want things to get out of hand... and attempted to make the censored words funny. I'm certainly open to suggestions! ;D

As for the electric bikes and building your own, how about this?

CRF2eR Electric Honda

More information here....
http://www.evdrive.com/Emoto_project/moto_project.html

And if you must talk about AE... just do it... I'll keep my eyes closed, just be nice to each other. ???
Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 08:19:05 PM »
Here's the thing.  If a two-stroke is fun because it's got a non-flat powerband, and a four-stroke is boring because it's powerband has a flat curve to it... You see what I'm getting at.  When you get a bike that registers a straight line on the dyno, I can't imagine it's going to be any sort of fun compared with the options.  It's like a 4T on Valium.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline JohnN

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 04:51:37 AM »
You realize that I do agree with you.... don't you??

The idea of the electric is cool because I could probably ride on a daily basis right in my own back yard. No traveling to far off race tracks, practice areas or further in the winter to warm places or indoor tracks.

One of the things that I got into when I attempted to break my addiction to motocross was slot car racing. t was a boatload of fun and you had to learn to be a good mechanic and competitor. Some of the hop up stuff was more about set up and tire selection that making the motor faster.

Yes I agree that a field of electric bikes out on a track would be boring as watching grass grow.... although that analogy is similar to the conga lines of four-strokes on the race track!

 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:38:12 AM by John Nicholas »
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Offline metal_miracle

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2009, 05:09:04 AM »
compressed air bike

COMPRESSED AIR MOTORCYCLE

Offline juliend

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2009, 05:32:13 AM »
Quote
Your vision blurs, the ground shakes and they accelerate so fast it's hard to explain. This will never occur with electric motors

I have to disagree. There are problems that must be overcome with getting the power of that electric motor to the ground without excessive wheel spin, but there is no reason that an electric motor of proper performance levels can not out-accelerate a fuel powered machine.

Ya'll have probably seen this, but anyway....

Killacycle New World Record 155 MPH!

And check out the tesla roadster as well, 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. And that's a production vehicle, not strictly a race machine.

J.

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 05:55:58 AM »
There will always be traction issues with any vehicle that you are trying to acclerate. There may be some advantages to electric power in this area.

As a side note, there are jet powered cars as well. They are quite the anomoly. They have incredible thrust, but the first 200-300 feet it is comparatively slow, then goes like a raped ape the rest of the track. I'm not a big fan of "burner pops" and getting pelted with dust and cigarette butts, but every now and then it's ok to watch.

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: The future of mx? Electric?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 04:53:18 PM »
I'm a fan of jet cars, simply because I'm a fan of jets.  To me, the 2nd best sound in the world (behind a two-stroke) is a pair of Pratt & Whitney F100 low-bypass turbofan jet engines.  Twenty points if anyone can tell me what airplane uses that engine configuration, Fifty if you can do it without looking it up.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?