MXA 250 vs. 250F comparison

[Stusmoke]

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/TWOSTROKE-VERSUS-FOURSTROKE-MOTOCROSS-SHOOTOUT-YAM-7117.aspx

First off... wow. Whoever wrote that article has really got their head screwed on straight. And if this has already been discussed on another thread I apologise in advance.

They really do let loose their criticism for the AMAs bs rules. Not to mention the readings were accurate and fair (by my interpretation).

"They wax on about the torque advantage that a four-stroke engine has over a two-stroke. Guess what? A Yamaha YZ250F four-stroke makes 20.1 foot-pounds of torque. Are you ready? A YZ250 two-stroke pumps out 30.6 ft-pounds. For comparison purposes a 450 four-strokes produces approximately 34 foot-pounds." Damn straight...

Although some of the later paragraphs clearly say that its easier, or it wins out in some situations because of less power, if you really think about it that can be taken two ways.

The whole article really takes a serious dig at the AMA and four stroke propaganda in my opinion.
Whats everyone else think?

[nom de guerre]

I say it flogging a dead horse... At least until the AMA gets rid of the lame homogolation rules and lets any bike race(let alone cc for cc). For Am racing, the choice seems pretty straight forward to me.

[cnrcpla]

Hahaha, so the torque specs are higher on a 250 2T then a 250f and a hair lower on a 250 2T than a 450f. Remind me again please WHY people like these bikes? Oh yeah that's right... They're lazy and don't want the hit of power  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">

[factoryX]

It all comes down to the change of the track layout.   Whenever it gets rough the 4t has a shit biscuit while 2t plows on. 

[chump6784]

It is a good, honest, no BS article. The dig they are having at the AMA is true and completely justified.

Having done races on my 2 stroke and then swapping to my brothers 4 stroke i agree with what they say. The fastest time will come on the 2 stroke but at the end of the moto when i am getting tired consistency is found on the 4 stroke. I consider myself a decent rider but my fitness is terrible. The 4 stroke tends to mask that a little.

The biggest advantage by far is the start. I have a terrible start technique that i just cant break. At least on the smoker i am always up the front of the start, then it is up to the other guys to get around me.

[msambuco]

It is a good, honest, no BS article. The dig they are having at the AMA is true and completely justified.

Having done races on my 2 stroke and then swapping to my brothers 4 stroke i agree with what they say. The fastest time will come on the 2 stroke but at the end of the moto when i am getting tired consistency is found on the 4 stroke. I consider myself a decent rider but my fitness is terrible. The 4 stroke tends to mask that a little.

The biggest advantage by far is the start. I have a terrible start technique that i just cant break. At least on the smoker i am always up the front of the start, then it is up to the other guys to get around me.

Sounds like you have a good start technique. Harder to feather the clutch and not bog a 2 stroke. I used to get many holeshots but now I am not so good at starts. You have to be good to get consistent good starts. 

[chump6784]

It is a good, honest, no BS article. The dig they are having at the AMA is true and completely justified.

Having done races on my 2 stroke and then swapping to my brothers 4 stroke i agree with what they say. The fastest time will come on the 2 stroke but at the end of the moto when i am getting tired consistency is found on the 4 stroke. I consider myself a decent rider but my fitness is terrible. The 4 stroke tends to mask that a little.

The biggest advantage by far is the start. I have a terrible start technique that i just cant break. At least on the smoker i am always up the front of the start, then it is up to the other guys to get around me.

Sounds like you have a good start technique. Harder to feather the clutch and not bog a 2 stroke. I used to get many holeshots but now I am not so good at starts. You have to be good to get consistent good starts.

That's the thing, I can't feather the clutch.  As much as I try when the gate drops I dump the clutch resulting in the front end coming up and having to pull the clutch again to bring it back down. It's that second clutch pull that breaks momentum, then its up to the horsepower to get up the front again

[Stusmoke]

It is a good, honest, no BS article. The dig they are having at the AMA is true and completely justified.

Having done races on my 2 stroke and then swapping to my brothers 4 stroke i agree with what they say. The fastest time will come on the 2 stroke but at the end of the moto when i am getting tired consistency is found on the 4 stroke. I consider myself a decent rider but my fitness is terrible. The 4 stroke tends to mask that a little.

The biggest advantage by far is the start. I have a terrible start technique that i just cant break. At least on the smoker i am always up the front of the start, then it is up to the other guys to get around me.

Well said

[msambuco]

It is a good, honest, no BS article. The dig they are having at the AMA is true and completely justified.

Having done races on my 2 stroke and then swapping to my brothers 4 stroke i agree with what they say. The fastest time will come on the 2 stroke but at the end of the moto when i am getting tired consistency is found on the 4 stroke. I consider myself a decent rider but my fitness is terrible. The 4 stroke tends to mask that a little.

The biggest advantage by far is the start. I have a terrible start technique that i just cant break. At least on the smoker i am always up the front of the start, then it is up to the other guys to get around me.

Sounds like you have a good start technique. Harder to feather the clutch and not bog a 2 stroke. I used to get many holeshots but now I am not so good at starts. You have to be good to get consistent good starts.

That's the thing, I can't feather the clutch.  As much as I try when the gate drops I dump the clutch resulting in the front end coming up and having to pull the clutch again to bring it back down. It's that second clutch pull that breaks momentum, then its up to the horsepower to get up the front again

Not claiming to be an expert but this is how I managed to get good starts. Very basic.
1- Gate pick. Since I was always a little nervous I pick a gate away from the inside where the big concentration was. I then would find one with a straight trench as opposed to one where someone roosted a little sideways.
2- Gate prep. Since the biggest thing I wanted to avoid was the front end coming up I would prep the OPPOSITE of everyone else. Everyone else would get all loose dirt out of the lane. I would kick a little extra in for some early wheel spin.. I would also make a little 6" to 8" dirt ramp leading up to the gate to prevent it from popping up the front wheel. Last, once the gate is up I put my bike exactly in the right spot and pushed some loose dirt under the front wheel to keep it from rolling forward.
3- What everyone already knows. Watch the pin in your peripheral vision.
4- Launch. I had a buddy that I practiced starts a lot. You need to do this. Leaving the gate is an art of increasing throttle and feeding out the clutch at the same time. If the front starts to come up the CLUTCH is the tool to let off a little. Practice until you need a new clutch and top end.

Once you are halfway to the turn now just play the hand your dealt. Only advice here is I always treated the first turn to the second turn like another start. Many times I turned a mid pack start into top 5 as we exited the 2nd turn.

Once I had my good start watched all the faster guys pass me. I was good at starts and big jumps. Everything else I sucked at. Still had fun though.

[bearorso]

Yet, anyone else notice how the HP comparison chart, for the big 250 comparison, shows HP from 7000 rpm on, only?

Now, the SX 250, makes  nearly more HP (39.43) at 7000rpm,  than the KXF250 does as a maximum (39.50 @ 12,800), and it makes 49.77 at 8350, going through to 43.87 in the last listing @ 10,00rpm.

But by not showing How much extra HP, And torque, the 250SX makes far lower down the range, the list conveniently makes the 250 2t look Very hard to deal with. The myth that 4ts are torquey, continues for most unknowing riders. 250 4ts, are only torquey (over a far wider range than 125s) when compared to 125 2ts. 450 4ts, are only torquey, compared to 250 2ts.

MXA, Should show graphs / listings, that show the Full range of HP and torque, for each engine type, if they are to be taken seriously.

Each engine, has its advantages, and disadvantages. There's parity through the different breadth of rev ranges (and the fact that All 250 4ts at high level competition, are made to put out a hell of a lot more than standard) for the average rider.

Perhaps the worst thing to see, nowadays, are riders who are committed 250 4t riders, getting on a 250 2t, and revving the ring out of them, into high rev / low HP ranges, and forever slamming / being slammed by the undeniable big hit a 2t has. They have no idea about using the lower rev range, and torque / HP available there, on an equivalent sized 2t.

It's bloody sad. MXA, Should show the full characteristics of all engines.