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_X_:
sucks to the electric bicycle.

VintageBlueSmoke:
2 things Stu:

First, although I believe regular motorcycles 'could' be lighter (as the new KTM free ride shows), the electric bikes I've dealt with are all almost HALF the weight of the their ICE counterparts. Electric motors and batteries are very heavy but are more compact. Where an ICE trials bike has every available mm wedged together, an electric trials bike has free space  like when you put a 50cc engine in a full sized motocrosser! The trend I've seen in the E-bikes uses mostly high-end down-hill bicycle components. E-bikes are smaller overall and lighter. The advantages are obvious.

The second thing regards racing. I don't foresee the end of ICE, however, I think you'll EVENTUALLY see more importance in racing rules geared toward conservation. As I have suggested elsewhere on this site, having a simple fuel allotment (like in NASCAR, F1 and others) is only the beginning. I (if I were king) would open the rules up and put in restrictions based on national goals such as emissions - this season we'll track your total CO emissions via your issued ECU (as in F1) and you can't go over X for the season. You'll see racing managers slowing racers on the track (as you see in F1) managing resources.

I like box rules in racing with simple goals to obtain. If you want wings, ground effects, turbo supercharged nitro burning wankle engines, that is fine - but your simple goals are: 6 engines per season, 3 gearboxes, emissions of X, X gallons of X type fuel or X gallons of Y type fuel and 100 pairs of tires (20 of which are rain). Good luck and see you at the starting line.

Stusmoke:

--- Quote from: VintageBlueSmoke on October 03, 2013, 06:04:24 PM ---2 things Stu:

First, although I believe regular motorcycles 'could' be lighter (as the new KTM free ride shows), the electric bikes I've dealt with are all almost HALF the weight of the their ICE counterparts. Electric motors and batteries are very heavy but are more compact. Where an ICE trials bike has every available mm wedged together, an electric trials bike has free space  like when you put a 50cc engine in a full sized motocrosser! The trend I've seen in the E-bikes uses mostly high-end down-hill bicycle components. E-bikes are smaller overall and lighter. The advantages are obvious.

The second thing regards racing. I don't foresee the end of ICE, however, I think you'll EVENTUALLY see more importance in racing rules geared toward conservation. As I have suggested elsewhere on this site, having a simple fuel allotment (like in NASCAR, F1 and others) is only the beginning. I (if I were king) would open the rules up and put in restrictions based on national goals such as emissions - this season we'll track your total CO emissions via your issued ECU (as in F1) and you can't go over X for the season. You'll see racing managers slowing racers on the track (as you see in F1) managing resources.

I like box rules in racing with simple goals to obtain. If you want wings, ground effects, turbo supercharged nitro burning wankle engines, that is fine - but your simple goals are: 6 engines per season, 3 gearboxes, emissions of X, X gallons of X type fuel or X gallons of Y type fuel and 100 pairs of tires (20 of which are rain). Good luck and see you at the starting line.


--- End quote ---

Wow I had no idea the F1 restrictions were that comprehensive. I think, most especially in the 250F class, motocross needs to see engine restrictions. Factory teams get the new bike, punch the limiter out to god knows how high, go in the back and run enough numbers to know exactly how much power they can squeeze out of their motors for 2-3 hours of running time before they become unreliable. Now I know privateers aren't supposed to stand a chance, and I know they did the exact same thing when two strokes ruled the roost, but its just too expensive. High compression pistons, race gas, ultra high limiters, works con rods and crankshafts, works gear boxes, come on. Its just too much. To a privateer team, racing professional motocross is about promoting your brand right? So you can spend an absolute arse load on the bike and get decent placings, but potentially fold from the expenses. Or you can save money on the motors and place near the back of the pack, which defeats the purpose of racing to begin with. Doesn't make much sense...

And about the weight, I was more saying that I would miss two strokes. And if it came to a time when four stroke was the only possible option, not including where double displacement is in effect, I would miss it too.

VintageBlueSmoke:

Yeah Stu, F1 rules are so restrictive that they measure the paint thickness to ensure the lightest possible/smallest possible/smoothest possible design. The run a standard ECU (built by McLaren) regardless of engine. They are limited to X number of tires per race but also X number of tires per year to include practice and testing. They also have limits to the number of races per engine and gearbox and if you rent/lease your engine, you are limited to the number of hours you can run each one (including practice/testing)!

I am not saying motocross needs to go that route but we can learn something (constructive) from it (especially since everyone is using Bernie Ecclestone's play book for running a series).

I like 'draconian' rules. It means I can go right up against the line without crossing it - like a side line on a football pitch or tennis court. It is like a physical barrier. 250cc's - not 251cc's - 2-5-0! Unfortunately (just like in soccer and tennis where it is left up to the judge's discretion), current rules are vague and allow "interpretation" (is the ball out if it touches the line or goes over it?). I would do away with many of those vague rules and put enforceable rules that can be measured electronically/mechanically and not "left up to interpretation".

If the sport was deemed "too expensive", there are ways to limit is - just as F1 has done with limiting the number of engines and gearboxes, standard ECU's, single tire manufacture, etc.

Stusmoke:

--- Quote from: VintageBlueSmoke on October 03, 2013, 11:30:27 PM ---
Yeah Stu, F1 rules are so restrictive that they measure the paint thickness to ensure the lightest possible/smallest possible/smoothest possible design. The run a standard ECU (built by McLaren) regardless of engine. They are limited to X number of tires per race but also X number of tires per year to include practice and testing. They also have limits to the number of races per engine and gearbox and if you rent/lease your engine, you are limited to the number of hours you can run each one (including practice/testing)!

I am not saying motocross needs to go that route but we can learn something (constructive) from it (especially since everyone is using Bernie Ecclestone's play book for running a series).

I like 'draconian' rules. It means I can go right up against the line without crossing it - like a side line on a football pitch or tennis court. It is like a physical barrier. 250cc's - not 251cc's - 2-5-0! Unfortunately (just like in soccer and tennis where it is left up to the judge's discretion), current rules are vague and allow "interpretation" (is the ball out if it touches the line or goes over it?). I would do away with many of those vague rules and put enforceable rules that can be measured electronically/mechanically and not "left up to interpretation".

If the sport was deemed "too expensive", there are ways to limit is - just as F1 has done with limiting the number of engines and gearboxes, standard ECU's, single tire manufacture, etc.


--- End quote ---

I agree. I think at the very least, motocross needs to see a rule for production ECUs to keep the limiter where it was off the factory. About the engines though, how do those things survive for so long at such eye watering RPMs? most of them spend their time in 16-18 thousand, which is 266-300 RPM per SECOND! I can't visualize how fast those poor little pistons must be moving.

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