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Offline ford832

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2011, 05:37:21 PM »
Well,ok,but remember,you guys started it :P
I don't believe in an afterlife anyway so I can get that part of the human=animal equation out of the way.
We happen to be the top of the food chain,and by far the most advanced form of life the planet has ever seen- to our knowledge anyway.
No animal can do what we do,plain and simple.Genetically,others may be close but left to their own devices,will continue to do what they always have done instinctively while advancing little.This is part of what sets us apart.
To say animals are the same as us,think the same as us and feel the same as us is ridiculous.Your cat may come over and flounce on your lap after you've had a bad day and you think to yourself"Aaaawww,he knows I've had a bad day and is trying to comfort me"What he's actually thinking (in an instinctive sense) is"If I lay here I'll get scratched and fed-then I'll puke up on his lap and go shit on the floor"
To put human emotions in an animal is absurd.Their brains simply aren't wired that way.
If any of you truly believe in equality between humans and animals,how far do you go?If you actually believe it,it has to apply to everything equally or it's hypocritical drivel.
According to PETA, A dog is a cat is a worm is a human.All are equal with equal value as a form of life on this planet and deserve equal respect and treatment.
It's a known fact that animal rights activists pick their issues with the cute and fuzzy animals(ie seal pups) as this is what the addle minded masses respond to.If seal pups looked like sturgeons,few would care.
Anyway,back to the original point.If you actually believe what you say,where do you draw the line?Would you kick your dog?How about your neighbours?No?How about a Coyote?How about a Coyote who was doing what nature intended and was trying to eat your cat to survive and feed her pups-would you then kill it if you had a baseball bat in hand rather than let it eat Fluffy? Would you run over a raccoon in the road rather than put yourself off an embankment to your death?Would you kill a mosquito that was feeding off you in order to  bear her young to ensure the survival of future generations?
I've got way more but in order to allow for responses and easier reading,I'll leave it there for now.More to come later.........

I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2011, 07:32:03 PM »
Evolution advances relentlessly onward and our position at the top the totem pole on this planet could change overnight.

Spinoza,a Dutch philosopher,once said that:"If triangles had gods,their gods would be triangular".

I've been sick at home with the Flu all day and Petunia has searched my entire property for Rufus,her incessant honking  keeping me awake.Obviously she shares at least one emotion with we humans. :-[


Offline ford832

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2011, 12:43:48 PM »
Love the triangle quote  ;D
To suggest that animals have no emotions whatever would be the height of vanity.Still,we can't actually know what it may or may not be "thinking" Many animals exhibit similar behavior from a change in their usual environment.How much you could attribute to either is impossible to say.
Loons for instance,were always thought to mate for life.Recent studies have disproved this as many do stray then return in subsequent years.Possibly because this is instinctive behavior that results in more genetic diversity and therefore a stronger population-or maybe just for fun. :D
Many urban eco-weenie pet owners look down on hunters as drunken gun-toting hillbillies shooting everything in sight.There are idiots everywhere and naturally this happens as well(I'm looking south here  ;) ) but by and large,hunters and outdoorspeople have a better understanding and concern for wildlife and their ecosystems than most of the PETA supporters.
Case 1-As for me,I do what I can-little though it is.I build and hang birdhouses,feeders,owl houses,bat houses(I don't tell the wife as she hates bats and has always wondered why we seem to have so many around)I have worked on trout streams I've never fished.
Any trees I cut on my land I pile the brush into piles to help the rabbits-and bobcats,foxes,owls etc.I've planted hundreds of trees over the years and the ones I cut I'm careful not do destroy younger ones in the process and plant/thin where necessary.
Years ago,we had a couple of inches of snow that turned to ice then froze-then had two more storms that deposited about 2.5 feet on that.Deer in the area couldn't get to their food and yarded up as it was almost impossible for them to get around.Naturally,the coyotes (who could travel on top)were chasing them around until some died of exhaustion.Everyone in the area,tree huggers included,were aware of it but didn't bother to put themselves out to help.Late one night,two hunters,my father and myself,strapped on snowshoes and hauled toboggans of feed up to the yarding area.I realize nature is harsh and even coyotes have to eat but to see so much of the local deer population harassed to death and not eaten sort of gets to you.
Case 2-Down in the states(Colorado maybe?) trapping was outlawed a number of years ago due to PETA.WWF etc pressure and the resulting public outcry.After a few years,beaver populations exploded and the resulting damage to peoples property,roads etc caused another outcry-for the gov't to do something to get rid of the beavers.What they did was to hire trappers and pay a taxpayer funded bounty to reduce their numbers.The trappers used to do it for free before trapping was outlawed.
Case 3- Many of these "animal rights people" are also electric car,bio fuel advocates and strict vegetarians.
Currently,deforestation is happening at an alarming rate everywhere in the world to provide biomass for fuel and fields to grow produce as many crops have been switched to bio fuel producers,causing a shortage in less profitable food growing operations.
Riding around in their hybrid vehicles they feel pretty self righteous though likely unaware the majority of their electricity(Can and US anyway) comes from the burning of exceptionally dirt coal.
Cripes,I could keep going for hours here but mercifully,I'll draw this one to a close.
I realize I'm lumping people who think their pet is human in to the category as the likes of PETA supporters but of the many I know,all fall in to both categories.
It disgusts me how many of these people rant about hunters and people killing and eating animals and yet,when as the in the beaver case,something starts to affect them,all their holier than though beliefs go right out the window.
To look down their noses at someone like me,who at least tries to do a little bit and respect the environment and animals-always P's me off.Like it or not,everyone on this planet is a consumer and is responsible for wildlife habitat and wildlife destruction.If you live in a house,apartment or whatever,you are responsible for the permanent destruction of habitat that building required-as well as the materials involved and pollution generated from manufacturing and shipping of it.
Oh yeah,FWIW,my daughter has long been taught that though we are the top of the chain,we need to take care of the trees and animals-we need them to survive,but they don't need us.
More to come later-if you're up for it  :D

I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2011, 02:34:46 PM »
I agree with you ford on the point about WWF & Green Peace etc picking their fights to maximise publicity.
While living in Africa in the mid to late 90's there was smear campaign against the Botswanian government & it's Park's board.
There was an explosion in elephant numbers caused by weather changes, Floods etc.
The government decided it needed to start culling elephants in order to keep the balance of nature in check.
Areas of Chobe National Park were devestated by the large number of elephants that had entered the area.
Parts of Chobe looked like a bomb had hit it with 100's of miles of trees broken off 6 ft up the trunk.
(If you have ever seen elephants on the Animal Planet you will know what i mean. They break off tree trunks to get to the leafs higher up.)
No leafs no foilage etc. In those areas there were no birds no cheaters no wild dogs or anything. Even most termite mounds were flattened.
Elephants are at the top of the food chain with virtually no predaters, so left unchecked there would have been no habitat left for ANY animals.
So the issue was to kill off a few hundred elephants or let them roam free and have no habitat left for ANY animal.
All the Prius driving middle class wantaby's made a big noise about it but not 1 of them had been to Chobe to see the damage, nor had Green Peace but still made a issue out of something they had no idea about.
The government culled the elephants anyway and slowly the bush regenerated itself for the benefit of the whole eco system.
A case of people helping out nature.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2011, 07:06:56 PM »
We humans have upset Nature's equilibrium and are now trying restore the havoc we have wrought.I am not sure where we fit in the big picture but the Great One has thus far displayed notable patience in our existence.You never know though,a giant flyswatter could descend from the Heavens and send us off to meet our maker at any time. :-X

I'll try to find the names of two novels I have read about people's remarkable experiences here in Canada's western wilderness. :D 

Offline ford832

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2011, 02:07:16 PM »
TMKIWI,your elephant story sort of reminds me of whats going on in Newfoundland with the moose.Way overpopulated despite a hunting season.Many people killed on the highways because of them and they will soon be eating themselves out of house and home.DNR is considering a cull but naturally,the animal rights people who don't live there are fighting it.
As for Nova Scotia,we've had coyotes here in the country for quite a number of years.The eastern coyote is a coyote/timberwolf mix so many are the size of a german shepherd and of course,hunt in packs.
Some people pushed for a bounty years ago but all the urban animal 'tards managed to stop that.Typically,this is how it goes as the urban types far outnumber us bumpkins.It wouldn't have much of an effect anyway as you can eliminate 50% or better of a coyote population and still have more the following year.
Even after a girl was killed by two of them last year in one of our national parks,the animal rights types were still saying it's a shame but not fair to kill one for doing what nature intended them to do.
Interestingly,the ever increasing population has now started to encroach on the city limits.People there are walking their little urban "woods" trails in groups,signage for what to do if you meet one is everywhere and people there are petitioning the gov't to do something about getting rid of them as the urbanites feel unsafe now.LOl,too funny.
As is usually the case,it's all well and good to sit in your condo and spew animal rights crap but when it starts affecting them,it's a whole different thing.  

I'd have to agree sachs(did I just say that?  :D ) With our influence over the years,the best we can do is try to manage animal populations as best we can.Many natural predators aren't where they should be and without us,many animal populations would explode.
In time,without us,due to starvation and disease,things would stabilize in some form but many species would likely be lost.
I think a big problem is so many activists haven't the faintest idea how the natural world operates.More on that  later,little one just got home.......
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 02:09:52 PM by ford832 »
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2011, 04:08:45 PM »
Moose were introduced to Newfoundland by humans,problem is they forgot to bring the wolves along as well to keep everything in balance.I grew up in the wilds and the only thing we feared,and watched out for,were feral domestic dogs.They were nasty things and were either absorbed into the coyote population or the Winter would finish them all off.

Ford,soon you will be dreaming about Maicos and will become a staunch urban environmentalist.It's only a matter of time. ;D

Offline maicoman009

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2011, 04:53:54 AM »
Moose were introduced to Newfoundland by humans,problem is they forgot to bring the wolves along as well to keep everything in balance.I grew up in the wilds and the only thing we feared,and watched out for,were feral domestic dogs.They were nasty things and were either absorbed into the coyote population or the Winter would finish them all off.

Ford,soon you will be dreaming about Maicos and will become a staunch urban environmentalist.It's only a matter of time. ;D
Sorry about your goose Sachs & I know that people & some animals do have loving relationships but I do agree alot with Ford as I'm a avid hunter myself. I regularly hunt deer,squirrel,turkey & rabbit & If I see a coyote on any of my hunts I kill it. It's legal in the state of Md. to kill coyote if you have a $3.00 permit which is encouraged due to over population. Like Ford I'm not at all impressed with PETA or any of the other green weenies as I prefer to call alot of our younger generation that's involved in something they really know nothing about.Most of the younger college kids get involved due to thier naivete & they're easily impressionable! I often say to those younger people that are friends of mine but I like to tell them "you have a college education but not a lick of common sense!"LOL It's Sad but true in alot of cases! Not to  get religious on ya Sachs or Ford but it does say somewhere in the bible "don't ask me where lol" that man has dominion over all of the creatures on the earth & in the sea. I used to hunt because I enjoyed the sport of it but I don't enjoy hunting like I used to however I never waste any animal I kill! I make sure it gets packaged & frozen so it can be ate later. It does save me lots of $$$ at the market & my absolute favorite meat is venison! I don't know if you know who Ted Nugent is but if you don't he has been a awesome rock star & has his own hunting show & is also an advocate & member of the NRA.He is very educated about environmental issues & if he ran for President he would by all means get my vote! As for Ford he should at least be dreaming about Maicos 24/7 & I don't know if he ever rode a Maico but I truly hope he gets to one day because the look on his face would be priceless if he rode a 490cc or bigger Maico!!! lol Ford after riding a Maico 490....... :o :-X :-[

Offline ford832

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2011, 05:13:55 PM »
Moose were introduced to Newfoundland by humans,problem is they forgot to bring the wolves along as well to keep everything in balance.I grew up in the wilds and the only thing we feared,and watched out for,were feral domestic dogs.They were nasty things and were either absorbed into the coyote population or the Winter would finish them all off.

Ford,soon you will be dreaming about Maicos and will become a staunch urban environmentalist.It's only a matter of time. ;D

The whitetail dear here are the same story.Once introduced,they mostly decimated the moose population due to brainworm.
Maybe in time I'll be one of those uniformed,city bred,environmental terrorists.You may even see me on the greenpeace whaling ship.Now where did I put my hashpipe?Need to pack the essentials.
Don't hold your breath on the old Maico thing.Maicoman,you likely meant to put a yawning smiley in there.
On the other hand,there is probably a better chance of me riding an old Maico than there is of me ever seeing a new one  :D
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Lost a dear friend
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2011, 09:37:25 PM »
Koestler still manufactures Maicos in Germany and,yes,they haven't changed a great deal in the last decade.The perplexing thing is that Koestler is Germany's largest KTM dealer so the guy knows how to promote a product and make a buck.What he has planned for Maico,if anything,I don't know.

The Whitetail population in my area is huge.You could just about hunt the things blindfolded. :-X