Why I care - Maico International - Project Two 50 - TSM

[JohnN]

In another thread I defended Maico International. For the record there are many reasons for this.

One of the few companies in the world that manufactures two-strokes is Maico. The others are KTM, TM Racing, Fantic, Gas Gas and Yamaha. Sure I'm missing a couple of the smaller ones, but Maico is a two-stroke ONLY company.

I've been in that position where every move I made was criticized, analyzed and roasted on the Internet. Starting with the Two Stroke Motocross and then later Project Two 50.

Both had a tremendous backlash of negativity and naysayers at the beginning. Of course there were some awesome supporters, some who have become wonderful friends.

With Project Two 50 it's easy to see the impact negativity can have on a low budget attempt to promote two-strokes. Almost right away Internet Keyboard Jocks thought they knew the best way to accomplish this task and their first "suggestions" were to hire James Stewart or Ricky Carmichael to race the two-stroke.

Of course this would have been awesome if the Project Two 50 budget was $20 or $30 million dollars, but the Project Two 50 budget was less than what you have in your wallet right now. With some really hard work we were able to secure some help from amazing sponsors. A few donated a limited amount of cash, some free parts, but most offered deep discounts on the parts we bought.

The end result was that Project Two 50 cost me big time. Money, time and energy that could have been spent with my family, friends and relaxing. But I was hard-headed and I had a passion to get a two-stroke to qualify for the MX Nationals.

Once we made some waves on the internet and the press, a couple of racers offered their services for a price, which was more than we could afford.

The lack of success of Project Two 50 is documented on the Internet so I won't bore you with the details here.

All we had was a passion to see two-strokes at the Nationals. While we gained some notoriety there were problems in our team.

The easy way out for me would be to list all the problems and throw other people under the bus. But the fact is that I put my reputation on the line and failed. I take full responsibility for Project Two 50 and it's lack of success.

Like I said we had some support, but even well-meaning folks in the two-stroke camp were busting our balls. We could have used some serious help from these folks but it was not the case. According to them, they knew better than we did and we were screw ups.

When supporters are criticizing your every move and the only benefit you could possibly expect to gain is the knowledge that you promoted something you believed in, things become very difficult. Everyone on the team thought the they knew the correct way to fix the problems and no one agreed on the same solution.

What's the old saying, ask 10 people their opinion and you get 11 suggestions.

Now some of you claim to be two-stroke supporters and yet you accuse Vince and Maico International of deceiving people or not moving forward in the "correct" way. Do you really think you are helping anyone?

Do you really feel you are helping the two-stroke cause by badmouthing something you know little or nothing about? Sure everyone's entitled to their opinions, but do you feel your criticisms will help in any way?

The answer is no.

I feel very fortunate that I have become good friends with Vince at Maico International. I have earned his trust, so he shares information with me that he is not ready to share with the rest of the world. The only reason I mention this fact is because some of what was written in those other Maico threads was complete bullshit.

Do the folks that wrote such crap have some kind of agenda? Do you really think calling someone out on the Internet is a manly thing to do? It's not. It's cowardly.

Do something positive for yourself, two-strokes and those people who are passionate enough to put their money where their mouth is. Should you desire to purchase a Maico (or anything else for that matter) contact the people that can answer your questions. Don't be a jerk and call someone out on a forum.

Please consider supporting those who are passionate about two-strokes. People like Charles Owens and Vince Page go out of their way to support the cause. At least give them the benefit of answering your questions directly before you rake them over the coals.

Speaking of Charles, he is the best person to bring TSM into the future. He puts himself out there and supports all you two-stroke fans. It takes a great deal of work to maintain the web site, write articles, moderate a forum, post updates on Facebook and answer e-mails. Plus it costs him a great deal of money to keep it all going.

Charles your passion and enthusiasm are contagious. TSM is a great place with you at the helm.

Thank you.

[ktm150rippa]

I hear you on callin ppl out and stuff. But I will say MI is a product which is going to need customers, now not insinuating anything alot of ppl forget this whole sport bikes, tracks, parts, etc... Wont work without customers it's just like if yamaha said they were gonna update their 2 strokes in 2011 then they didnt. Ppl would be disappointed but I wouldnt call out anyone on a personal level but would be let down by the company and would influence my future purchase. On a side note dude I just wanna give you a pat on the back for even attempting project 250, I think the idea's were there and right I still feel like mike is the right dude for the ride. Not qualifying seemed like a mix of bad luck/unprepared which is understandable. Next project 250 I just would like to see alot of testing trying out new stuff way early like maybe this winter/early next spring race some local events to work all the kinks out. Anyways we all know Who started all this (website,project 250) and we wont forget the awesomeness you've done for 2 strokes thx buddy

[monsteryz125]

i understand fully whats going on with MI of course i dont know the details but with everything in life theres always something that can go wrong and occaisonally does in my opinion this is just one of those unfortunate cases and while it probally could be handled differently with more information on what has went wrong but in the end theyre still a company that is dedicated to two strokes, and project 250 was still an attempt to get a two stroke into the nationals even though everyone had their own opinions on how the project shouldve been attempted not many people would have been willing to put forth their time and money into something that may or may not succeed and unfortunately did not but in the end trying and failing is always better then not trying at all

[ford832]

I believe everything you have done is greatly appreciated by everyone John.My questions with regards to Project 250 and MI aren't an attempt to rip either apart but simply what they are-questions.
Project 250.What was the cause of the engine related failures?Coatings,lean ratio and coatings?other?I find the coatings to be intriguing from a technical point of view and simply would like to know more.
MI.I think everyone wants to see them succeed,but brand ownership,politics etc aside-why is it that after all this time the best to be had is a cel phone pic? It occurs to me that if you want to get people hyped about your product,regardless of delays,a vid of said beast rockin' and rollin' would be easy enough to do.If questioning things like this make it appear I'm trying to tear down those who I maybe should be supporting-so be it.If the shoe was on the other foot,I'd answer it and do it.

[SachsGS]

I ride and,when I am not injured,I race Maicos.I have received good service from Koestler Maico in the 9 years I have owned their bikes and,given Koestler's long term association with the Maisch family,I consider them legitimate caretakers of the Maico name.

Imagine my consternation when,out of the blue, a company called Maico International announces that they are now the new owners of the Maico dynasty and begin to make all kinds of promises about dramatic changes to the make.Promises that thus far have not been kept,causing considerable damage to the Maico name.The MI people have been very adept through their manipulation of the media at convincing the public that they are Maico and that Koestler does not ,nor ever did,exist. There is nothing cowardly about using this same medium to confront them on this falsification of the truth.Indeed,the more MI continues on this path the more people like myself will respond.

I have a right,given what has transpired so far, to be very concerned about the fate of the brand.There is nothing negative about voicing what I believe to be true,we live in a democratic society.Vince Page has had ample opportunity to clarify the situation by communicating on this forum.He has not.

If I seem excessively negative or abrupt in my critique of the situation regarding Maico and MI I apologize but I don't apologize for questioning what I perceive to be dangerous to my passion,Maicos, and my sport.

[Bioflex]

As mentioned in another thread, I think MI are their own worst enemy by not announcing the fact they experienced some set backs.

With constant updates (sometimes more often than twice a week), then nothing for two months, surely you can see why people were concerned/frustrated.
If you give people something then they will soon start to expect it, it was the lack of any information at all (well after most expected the bike to be released) that has done the most damage.
I honestly think a quick update alluding to this in late December would have been a good move while not giving too much away.

Regarding the Project Two 50, IMO, "success" is something which people place too great an emphasis on. I respect guys like yourself who put it all on the line, follow a dream (in this case which was to see a two stroke qualify) and keep striving on regardless of what appears like a massive hurdle (or in fact many hurdles).
This process alone is what a lot of people admire, well I know I do, and if you do choose to try something like this again (with any luck with a Maico!) then it's likely you'll have more success, simply due to the previous experience.

Personally, I got here a little late to see most of Project Two 50 but it does sound like you went through hell and back with everything that went on. Thanks for this post, it gives us a bit of an insight to your perspective on all of this a bit better.

[JohnN]

Ford - I will gladly answer your questions about Project Two 50 over a beer, but I can't write about it on the Internet. I know this is not what you were hoping for (or anyone with an interest in what happened) But the truth is no matter how little I say about Project Two 50 it would hurt other people and not really help the situation.

Let's just leave it that it didn't work out the way that I planned.

I truly appreciate the support on Project Two 50 from all of you, it means the world to me. Thank you!

As for the Maico International situation, I do understand your frustration and concern. As mentioned in the other thread I must respect Vince's method of doing business even if I don't agree with his ways of handling the situation.

The only point of this thread is to say that some of the harsher comments were hurtful to me. Not to mention how I know they would hurt my friend.

I never have a problem with people speaking about how they feel, but when that crosses over to making statements that border on slander, I disagree. Not attempting to be a jerk about it, just expressing how I feel.

[SachsGS]

Untill Maico International is legally in control of the assets of the Maico motorcycle corporation they should withdraw from representing themselves as such.

On a more personal note,imagine my frustration when,out of the middle of nowhere,a company called Maico International pops up and tells me that they are now Maico ,production has been moved to England and that they will now chart Maico's destiny.Fat chance - they have displayed zero sensitivity to longterm Maico owners (like me),they don't actually own the firm,they make all kinds of grandiose statements and ,surprise,they are now receiving a great deal of flak for their actions.

I have tried to avoid these discussions because I knew the outcome would not be good for anyone involved.The tipping point occurred when MI issued the press release concerning ownership of the Maico trademark.I couldn't take it anymore and had to respond - slander? - look at what MI is doing - they should be ashamed of themselves!

[opfermanmotors]

Here is my take on the situation.

First, a lot of companies own the rights to build off the Maico's technology since they went defunt.  This is a fact.  The main "Maico" line saw many improvements up through the ownership of Brower with the last being the Hydraulic clutch.  Koestler bought the pieces and made Maicos ever since and made small changes (like the coolant drain), but not big changes.  I've bought many parts off Koestler, seems like a good guy and has a lot of inventory.

The second line, which has argueable seen the most improvement ignoring M.I., is Zabel.  Zabel engines will also bolt directly into the Maico frames (which the bolt pattern is the same since 1985) so you can upgrade any bike buying a refurbished Zabel engine from Zabel for a decent price actually, which would have a lot of improvements.

So, no one is trying to defunt Koestler and no one is preventing anyone from using the Maico technology even with this post, since the license to the technology is not the same as the license to the name.  

Now, enter Maico International, originally a distributor for Koestler.  As you can see, M.I. has tried to bring the bikes more modern, which is obvious and make improvements.  Koestler is not doing this.  They are promoting Maico and trying to bring it back into the spot light, which Koestler is also not doing.  Maico International is attempting to bring Maicos back more mainstream.  They have done a lot of work to promote the brand and get the name out there so a lot of people who previously thought the brand was gone now see that it is back and making a comeback.  Koestler does not seem to have any interest in doing this on a grand scale (At least, I have not gotten this imprssion), they are a small bike shop and they make the bikes and sell them, but they are far from wanting to promote them, make large scale engineering or invest heavily into this.  There's nothing wrong with that, that's what he wants to do and he was able to keep the Maicos in development to this day so they are still available after Brower went under.  That's great.

However, Maico International is looking to go further than that now, which is they are spending a lot of time and money in R&D.  Note they too are a small company with only a few people who actually work for them, so even the tiniest set back can be major.  In the last year they went from a distributor of Koestler with modifications to developing completely their own machines.  It's not unreasonable to see setbacks and its unfortunate.  Hopefully, once all these set backs are worked out, the new Maicos will hit the streets and really be available.  Production costs will obviously be high on a small scale, but if they make a strong comeback, who knows, if in several years Maico is more popular again and the prices will come down.  I know that's a stretch goal and we have through the first bikes first, but thats really all they are trying to do.  

Koestler's bikes will still be Maico, they are reproductions of the Brower's bikes essentially.  Maico International is just comming in and taking those bikes to the next phase of development.  They are both still Maicos and should continue to be Maicos.  So before we jump to conclusions, I think we should give them time to work everything out and see where it goes.  

[teriks]

Ford - I will gladly answer your questions about Project Two 50 over a beer, but I can't write about it on the Internet. I know this is not what you were hoping for (or anyone with an interest in what happened) But the truth is no matter how little I say about Project Two 50 it would hurt other people and not really help the situation.
<snip>

I would love the beer, the chat and some technical info as well. But, I kind of have a hard time to justify the travel costs for such a thing.. there's this "small puddle" in the way..

[Charles Owens]

Thanks John!