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Messages - 2STROKEREVOLUTION

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1
General Two Stroke Talk / KTM REVEALS SOME PLANS FOR HUSQVARNA
« on: April 30, 2013, 08:38:35 AM »
Wait a minute. I remember hearing that KTM does NOT own Husky. It is just Stefan Peirer that owns it. So there shouldn't be any KTM sharing going on.

2
I may need to buy a CR250 in the future! This is a very interesting build. That certainly will be a good, affordable alternative to 500AF conversions. I hope he is right that the 250 can handle that power. 75hp going through a case, clutch and transmission designed for 50hp.

Glad to see people that high up think my KTM 380 is a great motor!

3
Technical / Transmission Oil
« on: November 06, 2012, 11:51:28 PM »
I have read recently in an article about a 58hp Gas Gas 300 that Fully Synthetic ATF is great stuff. Cheap and slick. ATF is designed for friction clutches and gears.

4
General Two Stroke Talk / Double displacement is fair is it?
« on: November 06, 2012, 11:49:01 PM »
I am very skeptical at this moment about that horsepower result. Really, a 350 making more power than all the 450s? Seems fishy. And I test rode all the 2013 KTM MX bikes and the 350 in no way felt as powerful as the 450, even with the less weight.
I'll wait for the comparison tests to see.

As far as the 250SX goes, I could imagine they can get 55hp out of them by now. If they really cared. But there is no class to push them to have to do that.

There is a point on a MX track where there is too much power. Of course, that depends on the rider and their skill. Then the advantages of weight. As said, many pro 250 riders match the 450 lap times. I would personally probably be quickest on a 200, that is my theory. I can wring a 125/144 out but would like more bottom end. While in the desert, I can use all 55+hp of my 380 at times.

It doesn't make more power than ALL the 4foopties. Remember it needs to be wrung out to get that 53 horsepower. The KX450F makes about 55 at around 10,00 RPM. the 350 is getting pulled by the 450s all the way until the high revs when the 350 just keeps dishing out power.

I still don't trust it until there are back to back dynos. After seeing 450s "jump" a few years ago from ~48hp to ~54hp with no changes to the engines, this could be the same. New dyno, re-calibrated, weather changes, etc.

For a 350 to match a 450 in peak power, it is being stressed to the limit or everything else is being held back.

That was when EFI actually started working decently and a combination of improved engineering. At 48 horsepower, there really is no reason to go with a 450 over a 250smoker. I'd say the manufacturers realized this and put a little more effort into it.

As I said, zero changes. They said so and never mentioned all the bikes feeling more powerful. It was a change in some external factor.
The benefit of a 4-stroke, while it may not make more top end power, is the low end power. That is why I would always pick a 300 smoker. 250 handling but broader power.

Here is the first dyno I have seen of the bikes. Seems the 350 does make comparable power.


5
General Two Stroke Talk / Double displacement is fair is it?
« on: November 05, 2012, 04:03:38 PM »
I am very skeptical at this moment about that horsepower result. Really, a 350 making more power than all the 450s? Seems fishy. And I test rode all the 2013 KTM MX bikes and the 350 in no way felt as powerful as the 450, even with the less weight.
I'll wait for the comparison tests to see.

As far as the 250SX goes, I could imagine they can get 55hp out of them by now. If they really cared. But there is no class to push them to have to do that.

There is a point on a MX track where there is too much power. Of course, that depends on the rider and their skill. Then the advantages of weight. As said, many pro 250 riders match the 450 lap times. I would personally probably be quickest on a 200, that is my theory. I can wring a 125/144 out but would like more bottom end. While in the desert, I can use all 55+hp of my 380 at times.

It doesn't make more power than ALL the 4foopties. Remember it needs to be wrung out to get that 53 horsepower. The KX450F makes about 55 at around 10,00 RPM. the 350 is getting pulled by the 450s all the way until the high revs when the 350 just keeps dishing out power.

I still don't trust it until there are back to back dynos. After seeing 450s "jump" a few years ago from ~48hp to ~54hp with no changes to the engines, this could be the same. New dyno, re-calibrated, weather changes, etc.

For a 350 to match a 450 in peak power, it is being stressed to the limit or everything else is being held back.

6
General Two Stroke Talk / Double displacement is fair is it?
« on: November 05, 2012, 05:10:35 AM »
I am very skeptical at this moment about that horsepower result. Really, a 350 making more power than all the 450s? Seems fishy. And I test rode all the 2013 KTM MX bikes and the 350 in no way felt as powerful as the 450, even with the less weight.
I'll wait for the comparison tests to see.

As far as the 250SX goes, I could imagine they can get 55hp out of them by now. If they really cared. But there is no class to push them to have to do that.

There is a point on a MX track where there is too much power. Of course, that depends on the rider and their skill. Then the advantages of weight. As said, many pro 250 riders match the 450 lap times. I would personally probably be quickest on a 200, that is my theory. I can wring a 125/144 out but would like more bottom end. While in the desert, I can use all 55+hp of my 380 at times.

7
if your head is as per the stock bore and now your bored out a full 2mm bigger then your cylinder area has increased by 8%. thats a fair margin so should be altered to match the new bore.

While your in there you can get your head modified to the modern shape/squish/volumes also so you can get the most out of the old girl.

So a combination of your head being for a smaller bore bike and it also being a 30 year old design is reason enough for me to recommend that mail the head off to a reputable two stroke tuner to get it set up properly.

This same tuner can most likely also make you an oversized gasket also as a big overlap is definitely a no-no!
either that or buy some copper sheet and make your own head gasket like I do, or simply send your stock gasket to a laser cutter and tell them you want that replicated but with an Xmm diameter hole instead. Will set you back 50-100 bucks so get a few made while your there as all the cost is getting it set up!

Listen to this. Good advice.

You can use the head mod to tailor the power to bottom-mid to be more rideable. Not sure who you are having do the overbore, but some, like Eric Gorr, do full packages with bore, port and head mod. Great to get the power delivery you want with your rebuild.

8
The problem with only a dyno dyno is it only shows what happens at full throttle. Part throttle is different. Only a bum dyno can give a full report of how it works.
Yes, there is the thinner wallet issue. That is why it is necessary to test it back to back with stock. Bum dyno back to back to really know how it works.

9
General Two Stroke Talk / Can't believe no one has made a post about this..
« on: November 03, 2012, 06:17:08 PM »
Cripes,it even looks like a Lectron.

He did say on KTMTalk,

Quote
Red Edmonston invented the Lake Injector, 1968, the Pos A Fuel, 1971, the Lectron, 1973, the EI Blue Magnum, 1977, the Edelbrock Quiksilver in the 80's, the AFT in the 90's and the SmartCarb (our name) in 2001.

Quote
Yes, Red Edmonston was my friend and I worked with him the last five years of his life. The SmartCarb is the culmination of his life's work and he was working through the last few hard details when he died. The issues he had with Mike were not pretty and there were a lot of hard feelings over the AFT carburetor (after the Quiksilver) that he and Mike had partnered with. He said he always held back the best and I knew the potential this carburetor had, so I partnered with some people and we bought the technology. Red felt very paranoid about this carburetor and expressed to me how much technology had been stolen from him over the years (most recently PSI) so any detailed information from him was pretty vague. He ultimately died of brain cancer and shortly before he died he hid all his technical writings and drawings which we were never able to receive, so if you can imagine trying to learn 45 years worth of experience with these type of fuel systems was difficult to say the least. Past that, correcting the remaining issues.

What we have now though is absolutely the finest mechanical fuel delivery device ever made and we are just scratching the surface of it's atomization potential.

Best Regards,

Corey

So, yes, it looks and functions similar to a Lectron because it IS the same DNA. Just advanced 30 years.

10
Porting and pipes are a give take change. You give up top end for bottom end. If you didn't want that, too late. Finding a pipe to "give back top end" will simply be taking it back away from the bottom end and the porting was a waste of $.

You don't want to port for low and pipe for high, you don't want them "fighting" each other. The best performance comes from them working in harmony. "Pipe to your port"

At this point you have to look into other modes to get more power. Higher compression could help a little. Maybe more efficient reeds. Or any ways to reduce drag on the engine: reduce rolling resistance, reduce weight,digital ignition, etc.
I think your best bet is waiting to see if the APT SmartCarb performs as promised. That should enhance your porting work and give back any lost top end, and then some.

11
General Two Stroke Talk / crf/ktm 250sx hyrbrid drool worthy...
« on: October 30, 2012, 11:34:41 PM »
I do agree with one of the posts in there. Might as well stick with the KTM frame. What is the point of a conversion? The steel frame is lighter, especially if you get the last generation of PDS. Would be cheaper than getting a donor 450 frame too.

I would love to see a conversion like this with a KTM 380 motor.

12
Take your carburettor and find a large deep body of water. Throw said carburettor into that body of water! Fit EFI and don't piss around!

Unless it is DI, no way. If the SmartCarb can match EFI performance for a fraction of the cost and without all the electronics then to hell with EFI, don't piss around with it.

13
Technical / Single ring vs. double ring pistons
« on: October 26, 2012, 11:34:28 PM »

Dual ring: Longer lasting, more stable in bore, 2 rings to transfer heat to the cylinder walls so piston stays cooler.


Rings don't help piston rock, and the same person that says that twin rings make the piston run cooler(they do but it's very marginal due to increase in friction as rpm rises) will run 50:1 oil.

The rock and heat transfer from 2-rings was what I read on MacDizzy.

What is your point on the 50:1?

Quote
A thing to notice is it governed by bore size and rpm. Bigger bore engines will tend to have 2 rings smaller bore single rings.

Wossner's 380 piston is a single ring, and that is a 78mm bore. Stock and Wiseco are twin ring.

14
I am not getting at any of you guys. If you believe in it go get one.
I have been around long enough to know that just because someone says it's true, doesn't mean it is.
If it works great. But I reserve judgment at this time.



Even though I'm just tuning in now, this has always been my goto response for something that claims a 10% power increase was it?

Come on... That 10% is rather circumstantial don't you think? That would have to be the best case scenario.

Otherwise, I say that until a true Direct Fuel Injection system is brought out, this is a welcome advance. If it works. I'd like to see a more technical explanation of how a carb can automatically adjust for temperature, altitude etc. And I'd DEFINITELY want to see some real to life reviews of it before I go plonking down god-only-knows how many $$ on something that may or may not have the claimed results.

According to them, Gas Gas factory saw a 14% increase.

Hopefully it is true, but I wouldn't expect 10% for most cases. These are all claims from the factory, so who knows. I am definitely waiting for people to test it and 3rd party dyno testing to be done. By the time the affordable cast version comes out, we should know if it is the real deal.

Even at 5%, that is as much as a good exhaust, without the downsides of an exhaust losing bottom end. And if it can help the jetting issues of the 380, and no re-jetting again, then I'm all for it.

15
I am not getting at any of you guys. If you believe in it go get one.
I have been around long enough to know that just because someone says it's true, doesn't mean it is.
If it works great. But I reserve judgment at this time.

The reason you aren't getting to us is because the way you are trying to. You say it is no better than a Lectron then provide the reasons why it IS better.

The bottom line is IF it lives up to all the claims, it is well worth the cost and no other mod does the same.

It is okay to be a skeptic because there is little 3rd party testing, that is fine, but you can't attack it by comparing it to something that offers 1/5 the benefits.

So, lets wait and see what people say about it after they use it. And hopefully mags like MXA test it too.

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