Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: Hondacrrider on July 28, 2010, 09:30:28 AM
-
I was looking into some street bikes(like a GXSR 1000) and supposedly they put out 200 hp, but, a yz 250 only puts out like 45 hp, how are they able to get so much hp out of a four stroke like that, and still have it reliable, but are they very reliable? They are a street bike, so they must be, this is all so confusing, it seems as though a whole dif level of technology is put into the street bikes than the dirt bikes
-
I was looking into some street bikes(like a GXSR 1000) and supposedly they put out 200 hp, but, a yz 250 only puts out like 45 hp, how are they able to get so much hp out of a four stroke like that, and still have it reliable, but are they very reliable? They are a street bike, so they must be, this is all so confusing, it seems as though a whole dif level of technology is put into the street bikes than the dirt bikes
They have 3 more pistons.. It is an inline four..
-
Think of it this way. A street bike like a GSXR1000 that has 4 cylinders. If you had 4 YZ250 cylinders to equal a 1000cc two stroke, it would be 180hp, not far off considering it doesn't have cams, valves, etc.
-
First of all most horsepower figures are exaggerated and sometimes misquoted.
You are comparing an inline 4 cylinder 4 stroke street bike versus a single cylinder two stroke dirt bike. Not a good comparison to start with.
With that cleared up, what is the question you'd like to ask?
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Supermono (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Supermono) Look at this and reasonable reliable too. The 4 stroke motocross engines are not overly stressed it seems. But still expensive if they blow. I guess normal use is different then racing a four stroke. Ducati does not use valve springs but desmo system that can handle higher revs. 100 ph for one liter car engines is not considered very much but in modern cars kinda normal. Motocross engines are i guess not build for high hp alone but also torque. Not expert shall ask my brother he prepares classic ferrari's for classic races.
Still i think 2 strokes much much better for mx bikes and also for motorracing. I watched motogp and just 15 bikes were there and the startgrid!!! 15!!! only 12 finished. Much too expensive for private teams it killed the sport a bit.
Anyway 35 hp for a 250 motox engine is not really much. As far as i know 12000 revs or so is not much either it depends on pistonspeed. Short or long stroke.
But why race a 4 stroke if a 2 stroke can do the same thing for less money and is lighter and cheaper to repair and more fun to ride. That really beats me. I owned a aprillia rs 250 twim street bike (2 stroke) really fun to ride even more fun then my 4 stroke ducati with a lots of horses.
But as far as i can see the 4 stroke motocross engine are not overstressed.
Shall ask my brother if i see him. He knows all about 4 stroke.
-
The nearest I can figure, the street bikes are simply tuned more radically. I think if you compare the dyno charts of a 1000cc bike you'd probably find it looks a lot more two-strokish than a 250F, with less [relative] low-end and more top-end. So what I think that means, and remember I'm just speculating, is that they're made to reliably cruise the roads at low-revs for a long time with very little power being laid down. But then when you want to go nuts for a brief burst to run from the cops, you take it up to the kind of speed where a 250F would normally stay at for an entire moto. I would guess that if you ran a sport-bike like that as hard as you ran an MX four-stroke, you'd probably see a pretty vastly diminished lifespan. There may be other things at play, too. Perhaps they use a much more effective lubrication system because they're not as worried about KISS, that kind of thing.
-
Interesting, do you guys know if they ever made crotch rockets in 2 stroke versions for the general public, like a 1000 2 stroke?
-
I remember that i read something about yamaha and yz 250f. Was something like a yz 250f has one quarter of a r1. Stroke and obre also the same by the way. 77x53.6 for yz and r1. Only 2009 and 2010 R1 have other stroke and bore.
Anyway like jetz said one moto stresses an engine alot more then normal roaduse.
The thing is that normal riders want to pet or prepare their motors themselves because that is cool too. 2 strokes can be rebuild or worked on by a lot of people by themselves. 4 strokes is much more difficult. And if a 4 stroke blows much more expensive. This is all part of the fun. We or alot of people do not want lightweight valves and so on. We just want to ride and have fun.
If 4 strokes were so much better and reliable then ok i can understand this all. But in my opinion this is absolutely not the case. The only reason i see is that people THINK they will be faster on a 4 stroke and that the pro riders all ride them. Just fashionable these days. I give it a few more years and it will be over. Allready happening now. With all the fuzz and propaganda 2 strokes should have been dead by now BUT they are not so the only thing that will happen is that more and more go back to 2 strokes.
People are going back to 2 strokes and people like me who never owned a 4 stroke will not even consider a 4 stroke so tell me what can happen?
-
First:
200hp out a 1000 GSXR (or any other 1000) at the wheels is only a myth for almost anyone.
Really good mod 1000's are putting out about 180-185 at the wheel.
Next:
A stock moto 250f is 35ish at the wheel.
X4 that's about 140 at the wheel. Definately well below a street bike.
A good mod 250f these days is in the range of 43 rear wheel hp.
X4 works out to 172...much more respectable.
The limits in power on the dirtbike, while not fully explored, are typically due to a couple major reasons. One being the intake tract length. It's much too long for high rpm inertia/resonance tuning.
The other is head shape. Because the intake tract goes back towards the air box on the typical bike, the intake port has a fairly large turn in it. Air velocity can not be maximized as would be desired because the air must turn...
The new yami 450 is not limited as much in this respect with its down draft style head.
And lastly cam design and valve train longevity. High end sport bikes ARE revving higher. Their peak torque numbers, or BMEP is NOT higher than a good moto engine...but they just spin it higher for more power. This is not proving feasable on a production motocross bike for reliability concerns.
Now: A stock 250 two stroke is as stated, about 45 wheel hp. That's a far cry from what it can make..
a stock 125 easily produces 30 wheel hp...usually 33. Times that by 8 and you would get 240 plus wheel hp.
Now THAT is impressive. The high end motogp engines at 800 cc are rumoured to make approx that type of power at an impressive 18000 RPM. Technology, materials, and ingenuity at its finest to make that happen.
The worlds best 2 stroke 125s are over 50 hp...still competive at CC per CC at a 100th the cost...
But range of power on the two stroke will sadly NEVER compete at half displacement..and at absolute highest level it would seem even at same displacement to a truly trick 4 stroke..that avg joe will never be able to afford.
-
Sorry but you guys are missing the point.
Multi cylinder engines are easier to pull higher revs because the forces of the pistons are acting against each other smothing out the oposing forces.
The more pistons you have the greater the piston area. More piston area you have the more horsepower you can get.
If you use F1 as an example, Back in the 70's the Ferrari V12's had more horse power then the Cosworth V8's but the V8's had more mid range tourqe.
Ducati built a Super single in the 90's which was 600cc i think. They cut 1 of their V-Twins in half but they left in the unused conrod to act as a balancer.Other wise it would never have been able to pull such high rev's.
So in short, the more pistons you have the more power you have & the more pistons you have the higher the revs you can pull & the higher the revs you have the more power you have. In theory.
A modern 250F pulling 13,000 rpm is definatly over stressed >:D
-
sounds good.
By the way to add. My brother prepares racing engines for classic races. Like for instance ferrari 250 swb or gto. He always says horsepower is for customers and torque wins races. Sometimes customers want special engines for special tracks. Tracks with long straight high hp more important then torque. So he build special engines for those tracks with shorter stroke for other tracks they use engines with more torque and longer stroke.
Being fast around a track does not always mean you need more horsepower and certainly in mx this is true.
Laptimes of 250f are often as fast or faster then 450's. So if experts or ama says 2 strokes 250 are faster on a track then 250f then 250 2 strokes should also be faster the 450f or as fast.
i think it is the rider and not so much the engine 450 or 250. Open class 500 cc 2 strokes were always slower then 250 cc 2 strokes when i raced. Sometimes 125 were fastest. All not that clear.
I think it is just a money thing and manufacturers want to sell 4 strokes becuase then they will sell more parts too.
-
Hondacrrider
I'm suprised being from Canada you hav'nt seen any two stroke street bikes. I know in the 1980's and maybe in the 1990's you could get a Honda two stroke street bike in Canada.
-
Yamaha also made a two cylinder 350cc. 2-stroke street bike in the 80's.They were'nt very big but they ran great & had decent power.
-
I managed to find an article on, what I think anyway, is the coolest street-bike of all time.
(http://motorbikearchives.com/images/stories/bike%20tests/1978-Yamaha-TZ750/1978-Yamaha-TZ750-P0.jpg)
A TZ750, made street-legal after years of battling with the DMV and California Highway Patrol! And yes, children, it's a two-stroke.
Four cylinders
Three disk brakes
Two brass balls
And a sound that would echo off trees!
http://motorbikearchives.com/Bike-Tests/Road-Race/Yamaha-TZ750-The-Bumblebee-Special-1978.html (http://motorbikearchives.com/Bike-Tests/Road-Race/Yamaha-TZ750-The-Bumblebee-Special-1978.html)
-
When I was a kid, and my Dad was at work, I would uncover his Gold Wing, start it up(electric start), run beside it until it got going (it was heavy and the speed would balance it) and then hop on for a speedy ride around the block a few times, man that thing had way more power than my little dirt bike. :o
-
Thanks for putting that up Jetz, ;D I read that a couple of weeks back .
Now "That" is what i call a road bike. :D
I had a RZ350RR back in 86.They had YPVS.
That could out drag my mate on his GSX 750 :D
Plenty of power but not the best suspension setup.
Was certainly a cool bike tho.
-
What TMKIWI said.If you sort of picture working a hand water pump slowly through the stroke of suction and push then work it quickly so the push/pull overlaps it's much easier-for lack of a better way to illustrate it.
As for 2t street bikes,of course they did.I had two RZ350's.They were known in their day as giant killers and worked very well.Yamaha also sold the RZ500,a V4 2t street,Honda the NSR400 triple and Suzuki had the RG500 Gamma,a square 4 2t.
Back then,or now for that matter,I'd kill for a Gamma-drool,drool.
All these were sold in Canada,I don't know about other markets.
Oops,forgot one thing.The 2t dirt bike engine we presently have is a fairly inefficient design as well.As you've no doubt noticed,a YZ250 doesn't have twice the HP of a YZ250F,despite halving half the firing cycle.
-
Don't forget the Kawasaki triples! Especially the 750 Mach IV which, by the way, still holds the 750cc motorcycle quarter-mile record for this planet. My had one of them, until he tried to run from the cops and got his ass rammed when trying to give it up (lesson learned: don't let off the gas or they'll wreck your bike!) And after ramming him, they had to nerve to charge him for the damage "he did" do the cop car! I don't condone running from the fuzz but... Jesus Christ!
-
now this is my kind of subject. :P
If you do your research on gp bikes, a 1000cc 2 stroke can produce 2-3 times the hp as a 1000cc 4 stroke motor. Another thing your missing is power to weight ratio, a 500cc gp bike can produce 180 plus horse power, so you need to take that into focus at half the weight as 1000cc 4 stroke bike.
I like the kawi 750 tripple but I like the yamaha tz750 better along with the suzuki gamma 500 and don't forget the nsr500.
suzuki rg500 gamma
RG 500 - RGC two stroke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZr-PncUjnk#ws)
RG 500 - RGC Gilles Coulanges two stroke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLWAGP76aA&feature=related#ws)
:o
kenny roberts tz750
Kenny Roberts TZ700 Hot Lap 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udahgNQw2_w&feature=related#)
2009 King Kenny Roberts rides again Yamaha TZ750 in Indy Mille.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPscT-IK8E#ws)
and a random tz750 vid
#93 - 1977 YAMAHA TZD 750 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTMQTI54lJA&feature=fvw#)
-
I would like to get my hands on a NSR500V. A 500cc V-2 with 145 hp, now thats 72.5 hp out of a 250cc jug. Now multiply that by four and you got your 1000cc 2 stroke engine. Now 290 hp would be a tire burning ass end sliding motorcycle.
I heard that Aprilia's and KTMs 250cc GP bikes made over 120 hp, divide that and you have yourself their 125 pushing 60hp. Though I heard Aprilia has pushed 65 hp out of those little suckers, not sure if that's true or not but wouldn't surprise me that they did. Now if Aprilia made (and if it was legal in MotoGP) a 500, that bike would be around 240hp.
Now you can't compare a piston port YZ250 to anything ridden on the street or paved track, because every modern 2 stroke bike(if they made them for the street) would be running either case reed valve or rotary valve engines. Plus Yamaha just updates the YZ with BNG or some port and suspension changes every year. About every European dirt bike has a case reed induction engine, just look at Maico, Gas Gas, KTM, TM, ect, ect. Yeah the YZ's technology is a little old but it still works for them although the other engines smoke it in the hp department.
Now we can take the Maico 250's at 56hp and times that by 4 and get 224 hp. That's just by putting a set of Maico jugs on a custom case from a MX bike. I'll never ever see a GSXR1000 make 224hp unless it's seriously modded by Suzuki themselves for World Superbike or MotoGP.
-
When you say piston port, you're not implying that YZ250s don't have reeds, are you? Because I know Yamaha has been running reeds since something like 1973 with the old MX line, which was before the first YZ. "Torque induction," they called it. Or has the definition of "piston port" become more broad?
But anyway, if you're going to modify some dirt engines for the street, then I think I'm entitled to get me a street engine for the dirt!
(http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/kawamaico_triple.jpg)
(Amazingly, this motor is still smaller in displacement than the old 760 single!)
-
Honestly any two-stroke could be called a piston port engine, even one with reed valves. If there are holes in the cylinder and the piston is used to open and close them... piston port. Although it's a very old saying....
This is an awesome thread! Lot's of cool in-depth information and wonderful videos!!
-
When talking engine reliability, you also have to take into consideration the fact that a dirtbike stresses the motor with constant jarring from jumps, crashes and the constant hit on the engine, particularly when in flight with the throttle hammered just before contacting the ground repeatedly. The type of "riding" that takes place on a dirt bike is not just the motor accelerating/decelerating hard, it takes hits, bumps, crashes, and runs in a more hostile dirty environment, and is also geared so that it's power hits the ground at a much lower speed. If you rode a typical (4 stroke) dirtbike on the street only, it would last MUCH longer.
-
Ok here is info about KTM 250cc road racing bike http://www.ktm.com/6395.0.html?bike=7 (http://www.ktm.com/6395.0.html?bike=7)
Look at the power/weight ratio! Thats important. Those bike were faster than new (600cc) moto2 bikes.
Moto2 class is joke i think. Motogp should be proto bikes showroom not hondas slow bikes showroom.
4 jokes ruin everything good.
-
Don't forget the Kawasaki triples! Especially the 750 Mach IV which, by the way, still holds the 750cc motorcycle quarter-mile record for this planet. My had one of them, until he tried to run from the cops and got his ass rammed when trying to give it up (lesson learned: don't let off the gas or they'll wreck your bike!) And after ramming him, they had to nerve to charge him for the damage "he did" do the cop car! I don't condone running from the fuzz but... Jesus Christ!
You crack me up Jetz.I swear if someone was extolling the virtues of the invention of the wheel you'd get on arguing how the earlier square versions were superior :o
Anyhoo,I didn't forget the Kawi triples,I ignored them.Given that the question was pertaining to a somewhat race replica totally street legal sportbike,it doesn't apply to the triples.
-
Now you can't compare a piston port YZ250 to anything ridden on the street or paved track, because every modern 2 stroke bike(if they made them for the street) would be running either case reed valve or rotary valve engines. Plus Yamaha just updates the YZ with BNG or some port and suspension changes every year. About every European dirt bike has a case reed induction engine, just look at Maico, Gas Gas, KTM, TM, ect, ect. Yeah the YZ's technology is a little old but it still works for them although the other engines smoke it in the hp department.
As far as 250's go,case reed is hardly a superior euro bike secret.It worked like crap on the last CR's but that has nothing to do with the reed location either.It all hinges on how the manufacturer sets the engine up.YZ technology is no different than the euros or anyone else for that matter.As far as getting smoked goes,compare power curves/torque and not just peak hp numbers.Dyno numbers mean diddly in the real world.
-
Ok here is info about KTM 250cc road racing bike http://www.ktm.com/6395.0.html?bike=7 (http://www.ktm.com/6395.0.html?bike=7)
Did you notice the weight of that thing :o 101Kg :D
-
Ok here is info about KTM 250cc road racing bike http://www.ktm.com/6395.0.html?bike=7 (http://www.ktm.com/6395.0.html?bike=7)
Look at the power/weight ratio! Thats important. Those bike were faster than new (600cc) moto2 bikes.
Moto2 class is joke i think. Motogp should be proto bikes showroom not hondas slow bikes showroom.
4 jokes ruin everything good.
Absolutely tits.. AMAZING bike!
-
Wow, that KTM is a great looking bike. I'd like to ride that!
-
now this is my kind of subject. :P
If you do your research on gp bikes, a 1000cc 2 stroke can produce 2-3 times the hp as a 1000cc 4 stroke motor. Another thing your missing is power to weight ratio, a 500cc gp bike can produce 180 plus horse power, so you need to take that into focus at half the weight as 1000cc 4 stroke bike.
I like the kawi 750 tripple but I like the yamaha tz750 better along with the suzuki gamma 500 and don't forget the nsr500.
suzuki rg500 gamma
RG 500 - RGC two stroke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZr-PncUjnk#ws)
RG 500 - RGC Gilles Coulanges two stroke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLWAGP76aA&feature=related#ws)
:o
kenny roberts tz750
Kenny Roberts TZ700 Hot Lap 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udahgNQw2_w&feature=related#)
2009 King Kenny Roberts rides again Yamaha TZ750 in Indy Mille.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPscT-IK8E#ws)
and a random tz750 vid
#93 - 1977 YAMAHA TZD 750 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTMQTI54lJA&feature=fvw#)
Love the vids!!!! Bring back the 2 stroke!!
-
You crack me up Jetz.I swear if someone was extolling the virtues of the invention of the wheel you'd get on arguing how the earlier square versions were superior :o
I'm sorry, but that made me chuckle. I know many of us love old bikes (I hope to always have at least one bike 20 years old or older in the garage), but having every thread turned around to the virtues of vintage bikes does get a little tiring.
-
In the context of everybody and their cat talking about TZ750s, I think I was justified in mentioning something that does, in fact, still hold records. I mean come on, the four-strokes haven't been able to keep up with that thing, even after so many years. In the spirit of this thread, how did they do that?
-
It's not entirely unjustified if you're talking straight line performance but that's about it.To me,a race replica is just that.The Kawi triples had wet noodle of death handling,loved to smoke the center cyclinder due to unequal cooling and usually left a trail of shaken out bolts in their wake-loctite was definately their friend.On the other hand,many RR's had their problems too but I just didn't think the Kawi qualified.FWIW, I used to have one.
-
That's true, I've heard nothing but bad about the way they handled. It was like a Can-Am for the street. It would beat everyone to the first turn, and hit the second turn in 23rd place. I have seen a few triples looking like road-race bikes with the fairings and everything, so I would imagine it was possible to get something a little more along the lines of a TZ750 and a little less like a two-stroke Harley Sportster.
kawasaki h2r 72 charade france (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2iCqWD8sLU#)
-
Like anything almost,they can be made into a racer-and a cool one at that- but as delivered,definitely not.
-
I think Harris made frames for them ?
-
Here.......http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fasterandfaster.net%2F2007%2F10%2Fvalentino-rossis-honda-nsr500-one-for.html&ei=ZyZSTIz-CcL_lgf36JmjBg&usg=AFQjCNGyvguPTLKWR9MfK3-1dS8rFDfsnw&sig2=0IsEvJeizdP5r1MNAT1UDQ (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fasterandfaster.net%2F2007%2F10%2Fvalentino-rossis-honda-nsr500-one-for.html&ei=ZyZSTIz-CcL_lgf36JmjBg&usg=AFQjCNGyvguPTLKWR9MfK3-1dS8rFDfsnw&sig2=0IsEvJeizdP5r1MNAT1UDQ)
-
Heres some photos i took in london in 90.
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/tmkiwi/img004.jpg)
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/tmkiwi/img001.jpg)
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/tmkiwi/img003.jpg)
And i found this picture of jetz on one of his private sites :D
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/tmkiwi/moto2.jpg)
Doesn't he look good ;)
-
Don't forget the Kawasaki triples! Especially the 750 Mach IV which, by the way, still holds the 750cc motorcycle quarter-mile record for this planet. My had one of them, until he tried to run from the cops and got his ass rammed when trying to give it up (lesson learned: don't let off the gas or they'll wreck your bike!) And after ramming him, they had to nerve to charge him for the damage "he did" do the cop car! I don't condone running from the fuzz but... Jesus
Heres what Graeme Crosby said about Kwaka triples.
http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2008/12/memorable-graeme-crosby-and-his-bikes.html (http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2008/12/memorable-graeme-crosby-and-his-bikes.html)
-
Man, if he said that about the H1, the H2 must be ridiculous.
As for that picture, you've got it all wrong. My small-bore street racing bike of choice is this. Rotary valve and everything, hot mama!
Maico RS 125 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUTh8VW31JA&feature=related#)
-
Hahaha,I like Jetz's roadrace bike TMKIWI.On the other hand, I get a kick out his first ride with his biker gang as well.....
Pee-wee's Big Adventure - Bike Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0h_cvVGMcQ&feature=related#ws)
-
Looks a lot like him doesnt it :P
As long as jetz doesnt get caught doing what Paul Rubbins did ;)
-
That may not be quite as frowned upon in Oregon as in most place :o ;)
-
I haven't seen that movie in a LONG damn time. But, once again, you've got the wrong one.
See, when I first learned to ride, they did actually make a movie out of it. It was just after I got back from 'Nam, and when I get back in the 'States I find that a big gang of four-stroke riders killed my wife for kicks. So me and a couple a war buddies picked up some 2-stroke Kawasakis and decided to give four-strokers a little shock and awe. Here's a trailer to the movie they made of it. They tell me there's a scene that re-creates our first riding attempts.
Trash-O-rama - Chrome and Hot Leather (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMmxBzBR5KQ#)
And you can even watch the whole thing online! I haven't seen it yet because I didn't want to re-live those old memories, but I think I'm ready to give it a try. Where's my ye olde popcorn-popper?
http://www.fancast.com/movies/Chrome-And-Hot-Leather/16475/1259683769/Chrome-And-Hot-Leather/videos (http://www.fancast.com/movies/Chrome-And-Hot-Leather/16475/1259683769/Chrome-And-Hot-Leather/videos)
-
They made a movie about me.
1984 KTM 495 Rebuild Part 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch7DTR4t3hg#ws)
-
http://www.apriliausa.com/en-US/Model/20792/RS+125/Overview.aspx (http://www.apriliausa.com/en-US/Model/20792/RS+125/Overview.aspx)
This in a 250 and a 500.
-
Trash-O-rama - Chrome and Hot Leather
I see you in a completely new light now Jetz ;D
-
I don't know what that "trash-o-rama" bullshit was supposed to mean, but that was the only video on YouTube about the movie. And I really did just watch the whole thing, there are a lot of really nice old 250 Kawis just getting crashed and beaten. Didn't see any actual damage though, how did they do that?
-
This is a grindhouse film, that's why it says Trash O Rama. Here is a review:
Over the years there have been some GREAT motorcycle movies. . .This is NOT one of them!
In the beginning there was "The Wild One", and it was good. The great Hollywood attraction to 2 wheel action extended to Steve McQueen jumping the fence on a Triumph in "The Great Escape", The murderous, Moto Guzzi-riding traffic cops in "Magnum Force", and, who can EVER listen to "Born To Be Wild" without thinking of Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper heading east on their Harley choppers. "Chrome and Hot Leather" is to these great movies what "Plan 9 From Outerspace" is to "Psycho".
Synopsis: Bad guys on choppers vs. ex-GI good guys on dirt bikes. What this film lacks in story line it makes up for with weak acting. Good lord -- what a stinker!
I first saw this as a double feature Saturday Matinee with an equally horrible film called "The Hard Ride," which starred Robert Fuller of "Emergency!" fame. At least "The Hard Ride" was partially redeemed by the presence of an incredible Harley chopper called "Baby" which was second in beauty ONLY to Peter Fonda's "Captain America".
The only reason I even remember "Chrome and Hot Leather" is because on that Saturday in 1971, The Florida Theater in Starke Florida raised it's youth matinee ticket price to .40 cents, and I was determined to enjoy the show in spite of my pubesecent outrage.
There is one memorable scene involving an arm-wrestling match. Two huge, ugly Scorpions were lashed to the very spot where the arm of the loser would fall...Oooooo! Now THAT'S what I call EVIL!
-
I rather liked the movie. I guess you just have to be a fan of old Kawasakis to enjoy it, and I am that. That said, it's not a movie I plan on seeing again - there's another one called A Great Ride that blows it completely away (starring a '77 Husky 360 and '77 Maico 400, both enduros. No, seriously!) It's impossible to find but the plot is two guys going to ride from Mexico to Canada off-road, and throughout the journey they get chased around and harassed by the BLM and a series of other pissed-off people.
-
Trash-O-rama - Chrome and Hot Leather
I see you in a completely new light now Jetz ;D
Somewhere in New Zealand someone is picturing Jetz in chrome and leather :o Now there's a mental picture worthy of therapy :D
-
They made a movie about me.
1984 KTM 495 Rebuild Part 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch7DTR4t3hg#ws)
Hahaha.Great vid.I love the frame being dragged across the floor.I may have wanted it myself if you hadn't mentioned the tickly bing :D