Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => Non-Moto => Topic started by: keeptwostrokesalive on July 25, 2010, 09:14:26 AM
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These guys are insane.
Hillclimb Highlights 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsXi3mLMYGI#)
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Now, am I mistaken or are there are a lot of CR500s there? From what I've heard about that particular beast, they tend to struggle with hills because of their relatively radical powerband (compared to more mild 500s like the KX and Maicos). Are the hill-climbing CR500s configured differently to that this is no longer the case, or is it a matter of the CR500 just being "the" 500 everyone turns to?
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CR500s are bad for trail riding, even Super Hunky says that in his column for the exact same reasons. However, a CR500 is fine in the above type of hill climb because they don't ever loose momentum and they are wide open the entire time. Its when you let off the throttle or loose your momentum where the CR500's snappy power band makes it hard to recover and you have to start from the bottom of the hill again, this is where bikes with a smoother powerband are easier for trail style riding.
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Okay. I was thinking that maybe they'd be having some wheel-spin troubles compared to a motor that emphasizes torque over screaming and wailing horsepower, but I guess they're going fast enough to avoid that.
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I don't know the exact year they re tuned the CR500, But the later ones (1990? -2001) have a very wide power band.
My Service Honda is a great trail bike and hill climb bike as well. Always starts with one or two kicks, and will take off in the middle of a rocky hill climb easier than any bike I have owned.
The power on this engine is quite usable for me 47 a year old desert racer.
Last Year I loaned this same bike to a local pro Chris Barret and he got the hole shot at the L A Sleeve/Glen Helen two stroke race. He pulled Chuck Sun on a Service KX500 in the process.
Top ends last a long time, Rear tires don't.
(http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/GlennC_08/11_29_09098.jpg)
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My friend friend Frank Volbrecht, formally from western NY, now living near Bedord Indiana (owns the bike shop Outdoor Purrformance in Avoca, IN) used to love hill climbing. He build this bike and for the life of me I cannot remember the bike/engine he used as the base.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/SVCoop/Bikes/5188_98873738073_96073363073_2168580_6177199_n.jpg)
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They are spraying meteorite! Metal Paddle attached to a retarded engine! These guys are nuts!
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I have a 86 CR500 and it's terrible in the trails. Too heavy, doesn't turn, the snappy power makes it just spin tire if you ever loose momentum.
A friend of mine has a 2001 CR500 and it's actually even worse in the trails. The 86 has a bit more bottom end makes it a little easier to ride in the trails, but the 2001 may have a little better suspenion, but its harder to ride in the trails. He is always crying when we go on tight single track or what not and has backed out of attempting hills that the Maicos put up. He is actually thinking to get a Maico just because of how mine handle in the woods compared to his CR500.
I'm like this trail isn't that bad, he's like but look at what you're riding! He always says why don't I bring the CR!
One time on a double black diamond he almost went over the edge of a cliff, I have it on video. I was there on the 1982 Maico 490GS and there is a landslide that went onto the trail. One side of the trail is the hill the other side is a 50 foot drop stright down. On the trail at this section is a pile of loose rubble from the landslide.
I stopped at it, and then I just putted right over it on the Maico. He went on it and slowed down and when he gas it a little bit of gas to keep going, like CR500's do, the back end just spun out and kicked itself right down almost off the side! The maico doesn't spin out and those CR500's are all pretty heavy as well.
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My friend friend Frank Volbrecht, formally from western NY, now living near Bedord Indiana (owns the bike shop Outdoor Purrformance in Avoca, IN) used to love hill climbing. He build this bike and for the life of me I cannot remember the bike/engine he used as the base.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/SVCoop/Bikes/5188_98873738073_96073363073_2168580_6177199_n.jpg)
Coop, the bike at the end of this video is fairly similar to the one in your pic.
Dickeyville Hillclimb June 2009 - High Definition LPmotocross.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCG4VKjLRDc#ws)
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I have a 86 CR500 and it's terrible in the trails. Too heavy, doesn't turn, the snappy power makes it just spin tire if you ever loose momentum.
A friend of mine has a 2001 CR500 and it's actually even worse in the trails. The 86 has a bit more bottom end makes it a little easier to ride in the trails, but the 2001 may have a little better suspenion, but its harder to ride in the trails. He is always crying when we go on tight single track or what not and has backed out of attempting hills that the Maicos put up. He is actually thinking to get a Maico just because of how mine handle in the woods compared to his CR500.
Have Your friend do a little reading over at cr500riders.com lots of good info over there, Sounds like his bike is horribly out of tune.
I am quite certain that the older ones are higher strung and the newer ones have a broad spread of power.
Mine really has great torque down low and pulls great through the whole RPM range.
You should ride a properly tuned Service 500.
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Ya, he pretty much lives on cr500riders.com. He's done a bit of work to it like flywheel weights. I don't know, any CR500 I've ridden all feel the same, maybe yours is tuned differently than the rest.
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Holy hell! That Kawasaki triple (is that a 750?) was just orgasmic!
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I have no clue what it was, all i know is that it was super fast and sounded awesome.
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I wish we had hillclimbing down here in Florida so I could go watch. Looks like tons of fun!
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By the way, I just noticed that irresponsible son of a bitch has THREE straight stingers! I think there's something about Kawasakis that just doesn't want to be muffled.
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Those hillclimbers are awesome.cr500's are great in the woods when tuned correctly.Flywheel weight,correct porting,pipe jetting and head work and they are very smoothed.
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Or just get a Maico and no need to jump thru any hoops :)
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Jumping through Hoops?
Hoop 1 Find a Maico that runs.
Hoop 2 Find parts to keep it running
Hoop 3 Find a rider brave enough to ride a Maico on 60 miles of rocky single track.
My cr5 engine is stock except pipe, reeds, and jetting. Hardly jumping through hoops.
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My CR500 is the same, stock except for reeds, pipe and jetting and like I said, it's terrible. My friend's 2001 is even worse and he did try the hoops offroader said like flywheel weight and head milling, just about everything except change the frame, which is the other hoop b/c the stock frame is just terrible on any year, way too heavy and does not turn at all. (BTW, didn't u jump thru that hoop get and get an AF? That's a MAJOR hoop)
Maicos are surprisingly easy to find parts for and as far as 60 miles fo rocky single track I do that all the time, pretty easily infact compared to a CR500 my friend is always crying on his 2001 and envies my easy ride!
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Sorry to say but it sounds like your friend does not have that bike set up correctly at all.Either that or he should be on a smaller bike.Not fighting or disrespecting but just saying.Would be nice to be able to buy a new maico and see how good it is.Until that happens and they are available it looks like the cr5 remains supreme.
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I'm thinking it might be rider preference. Most of the CR500 guys I know think the CR's are great for trail and woods stuff, Some with lots of mods, and some with a few like mine.
I think most big bore two strokes tend to beat the rider up a little, Some of us are more willing to put up with the abuse. One thing I am sure of good throttle control is required.
Most people who I let ride my bike don't really get why I like it so much.
Most people who buy a cr500 either love it and keep it for many years, or hate it and sell it quickly.
I guess it is an acquired taste ;D
Keep the rubber side down 8)
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Ya, throttle control for sure is required on any 500, I just find that the wider power band of the Maicos to be much more woods friendly. My CR500 just spins tire and I rode his CR500 so it's not just him so I don't think it's a rider issue. Mine is actually easier in the trails but hits much harder than his does.
Even Super Hunky says the same thing and reccomends a KTM as a great trails/woods bike. I happen to agree since my 84 KTM 495 is actually quite awesome in the trails. Handling isnt Maico but the power spread of that bike is just great, along with 1st gear being geared so low you can crawl.
Truthfully speaking, had I never rode a Maico or older big bore KTM I probably wouldn't complain about the CR500 and just gotten used to it (actually, in the past when I had the CR and rebuilding my Maico I did get used to the CR and was like this isnt so bad.. then when the maico was back up was like, holy cow, its like night and day the Maico just puts the CR to shame) :)
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BTW, any one I let ride my Maico I usually get great reviews. :)
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The guys i let ride mine were four stroke guys, I think they were skeerd :o
Wheel spin on the service bikes is much better than the old jalopies.
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This is funny, some people trying to start my CR500:
CR500 Starting (RE: KX 500) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v6LY-YTHHY#ws)
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1998 Kawasaki KX 500 vs. 1983 Maico 490 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDmrCRMslkM#ws)
He's a beginner but the only person I recorded their thoughts and the 83 isn't tuned as good as my 82 Maico or KTM, need to gear it better yet its too fast I think.
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Wow! Someone's in an argument and it's not me!
Anyway, GlennC made the comment that big-bore two-strokes beat up their riders a little bit. While I can't speak for 490s and 500s, which I've only sampled intermittently, I can say that the most relaxed and easy-going bike I've ever ridden was a 390 Husky. I took that on a set of trails and roads one day, then the next week took my 250 Husky (which is essentially the same bike except for the motor) and it was miserable by comparison. Always had to keep the RPM up to keep moving, and when the power came on it was much more of a hit than the 390, even though the 390 was clearly more powerful in all points of the rev range.
I believe that 125s and 250s beat their rider up much more than any properly-done big-bore. They require you to keep it going and spun up a lot. And don't get me wrong, that's really fun stuff; I don't see myself ever selling that 250. But when you get into a bike that's got the big displacement and massive low-end, I think (and I hate to say this) they start feeling like a four-stroke. What I mean by that is they offer you the luxury of loafing about in whatever gear you want and growling up hills like you've got a winch hooked to the wheel instead of an engine. But fortunately, unlike the four-strokes, when you do want to spin it up and take off with the front end in the air and the back sliding thither and yon, they'll let you do that, too.
And that reminds me, I recorded my thoughts from when I rode the '83, I suppose I could upload that.
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I believe that 125s and 250s beat their rider up much more than any properly-done big-bore. They require you to keep it going and spun up a lot.
While that is true, that's the terrian beating you up and making you work harder, however a 500 does beat you up more by the bike itself and not the terrian. The bike will attempt to take off without you, plus on a 125 while it takes more work and effort on things that a 500 may find easier, the 125's are easier to stand up on, a 500 will sit you on your butt because the power, even at a slow speed, will make you feel like you're on a pull up bar, thats where the arm ripping power comes from. So in places where you have to stand, the 500 makes it harder for you to stand up and control the bike.
The 125's the bike itself is not beating you up, it's you just getting a work out from having to go fast and control it over the terrian.
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Maybe it's not the bike so much as the pace. For example, let's say you're riding with someone and there's a big hill coming up. Even a very minor difference in bike, like between a 390 Husky and 430 Husky is going to make a big difference in how you shift and get on the power in order to keep up. And if you want to kick the back end out and slide a turn, you can do it easily on a big-bore, do it with some effort and caution on a 250, and forget about it on a 125. On slow and technical stuff perhaps you'd want the light weight and mellow power, but my experience has been that the bigger bike will let you take things much more slowly and give you time to think about what you're doing, rather than going bonsai like a 250.
I can see things getting tricky on your '83 though, mainly because the action on your throttle is kind of funky. It has a little "detent" in it that makes it want to give power in zaps rather than just rolling it on. Probably the cable just needs some oil. I gather the 495 is also naturally zappy (like a gigantic 120) and would do that as well.
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And if you want to kick the back end out and slide a turn, you can do it easily on a big-bore, do it with some effort and caution on a 250, and forget about it on a 125. On slow and technical stuff perhaps you'd want the light weight and mellow power...
Have you ever ridden a "modern" 125 JETZ? Even my '88 KX125 will easily kick the back end out to slide and the power is anything but mellow. This is not an insult, but your problem (for lack of a better word) is you compare every bike in almost every discussion to the vintage bikes you guys own and ride. Really there is no comparison there. I love those bikes too, but I have owned and ridden enough bikes from the early 1970's through the 2000's to know that the coolness and nostalgia factor of those vintage bikes is really their best asset. ;D
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I agree with coop.You need to spend quality time on some newer equipmeb=nt to make a real world comparison.A 500 can be more tiring if you are hamfisted with the throttle and not smooth with it.Usually better to ride a gear or two high and let the engine do the work.This will also keep the rear suspension from stiffening up in the chop as you are smoothly rolling on the power making it easier on the body.
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Posted by: JETZcorp
Insert Quote
Maybe it's not the bike so much as the pace. For example, let's say you're riding with someone and there's a big hill coming up. Even a very minor difference in bike, like between a 390 Husky and 430 Husky is going to make a big difference in how you shift and get on the power in order to keep up. And if you want to kick the back end out and slide a turn, you can do it easily on a big-bore, do it with some effort and caution on a 250, and forget about it on a 125. On slow and technical stuff perhaps you'd want the light weight and mellow power, but my experience has been that the bigger bike will let you take things much more slowly and give you time to think about what you're doing, rather than going bonsai like a 250.
I never found a hill i coudnt get up on my 250.Even the short time i spent on my KTM200 i could tell that that bike would have been an orsome woods bike.
Anywho, Do you know what that lever on the left bar is for ? ;D
Use that properly and you can get a small bore smoker anywhere. :D
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Ya, 125's have power but they are either on or off, pretty much same with 250 mx bikes, you really can't putt around on them. So, on a 125 you're always wide open, there isn't any going to go up a hill climb at 1500 RPM on a 125, you're going up that thing at 13000 RPM in the highest gear that u can get.
The same in technical stuff or else you're going to be clutching it a lot. There are some good riders who can ride a 125 through technical stuff, they hit the power band hard whenever they can, it's more effort but it can be done, same with 250.
A 500 can be more tiring if you are hamfisted with the throttle and not smooth with it
Most definately, infact once you're able to ride the power smoothly it is a pretty easy ride though. But if you start hammering a 500 like it's a 125 it will throw you thru some hoops and you'll tire out pretty quick if you're not used to it. Like I said, try standing up on a 500 and then try on a 125, the 500 will feel like it's going to rip your arms off.
Those new KTM 300's are quite popular and I know a lot of people who have them. They do have smooth power and you can stand on them pretty easily as well without the arm ripping feeling. They also do have a good power spread from low RPM. The gears are also so short, makes it good in the woods, after riding my 500's those bikes are like wtf, how many gears do these bikes have??
Trask Climbs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SizuRaUp4#ws)
2 CR500s (1992, 2001), 1 YZ250 (1990) and a 1982 Maico 490gs (and only the Maico made it up the first several hills in the video)
The KTM 495 in winter:
Winter Wonderdland Part 1 Featuring the 'Rock Crawler' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLW1foadc4k#ws)
Winter Wonderdland Part 2 Featuring the 'Rock Crawler' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFqJ3ZcWEV4#ws)
Those bikes have a lot of low end power.
This is my CR500:
Mud Day, Ankur's Day Off, Return of CR500 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=724ezz1PzYY#ws)
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Well of course I know a 125 will pull a slide, but the reason I say forget about it is that it's tricky business. You've got a window of RPM where there's enough power to pull the slide, and the unfortunate thing about 125s is that this window is significantly narrower than, say, a big-bore. So while you can get it out, to be sure, you also have to make sure your ducks are all in a row, and when if things go on too long, you might run out of revs and have to shift, which would be a bit awkward in a big gnarly slide.
As for using the clutch to climb hills, that obviously works, but it scares me. What I mean by that is, I don't want to buy a new clutch. Ever. The clutch on my uncle's 430 Husky lasted 30 years before needing to be replaced, and the 120 started showing signs of needing a new one after 40. Low maintenance is something I really value, especially given my virtually nonexistent income.
If you're good enough, you can beat almost any bike or cover almost any terrain, regardless of what sort of machine you have. But the fact that it's possible doesn't eliminate the difference in how easy something is. A 125 can do immense slides, seemingly-impossible hill climbs, and turn out laps that appear to defy physics. But a 500 can do all of that easier, and safer with less wear on man and machine, as a general rule. Unless, of course, they're tuned with an irregular or peaky power curve. Then you might as well be riding a bomb.
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I can see things getting tricky on your '83 though, mainly because the action on your throttle is kind of funky. It has a little "detent" in it that makes it want to give power in zaps rather than just rolling it on. Probably the cable just needs some oil.
Have to get used to the throttle and have it on the edge of where it pulls. It's broken actually, its not the cable it's the throttle itself. I almost had to throw it away and get a new one but got it working and didn't try to get a new one yet.
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Cory Graffunder GNARLY HILLCLIMB 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsvPjDZLoWw&videos=Gx0dH0Ao_hs#)
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OMG, I heard a Grizzly Bear.
That video reminds me of the first time my cousin upgraded from a Suzuki JR50 to a Honda SL70 four-stroke (if you can call it an upgrade.) There was this gravel road over-looking a gravel pit (there are a lot of gravel pits around here, it's really just a big gravel clearing with pig piles of rocks everywhere). Rather than just taking the road out of the gravel pit and going up from there, our dads decided in their infinite wisdom that we now had 70 and 80cc bikes (I just got my Yamaha GT80 two-stroke) we could just climb the hill up to the road. After some struggling with a device called a "clutch" which I'd only learned of four hours before, I managed to make it up the hill, which was maybe 1/5 as high as the one in the video there. Meanwhile, Mark is down there struggling with his bike, primarily because he'd just let off the throttle too early. Half an hour later, Mark makes it up, crying and saying the bike had no power.
Now, my uncle is the kind of guy who doesn't take bullshit lightly. He's been known to yell at fast-food employees if they take too long. So after half an hour of watching his son getting his ass handed to him my what seemed to him (and to all of us, now) as a very simple hill, he was pissed. Red faced, he got on the SL70 (with no helmet or anything, by the way) kicked that bitch over, revved it up a few times, then dumped the clutch and proceeded to carve circles into the road, keeping the front wheel virtually stationary at the center of the circle as the back end swung around and sprayed gravel on everyone and everything. Then he stopped spinning and shot up into the woods (which looked just like a smaller version of what this guy did) and then disappeared into the trees. We could just hear this massive farting sound as he roared about and tore things to pieces. Then he blasted out of the trees, front wheel in the air, landed in the center of his circle, locked the back wheel, laid a big skid, killing the bike and stopping two feet away from Mark. "What the fuck you you mean it ain't got no power?!"
Many people throughout history have done Figure-8's in ice or on dirt. But only Scott managed to create a Figure-Q with an old SL70. The giant letter Q laid carved deep into the gravel, and remained there for five years until eventually it eroded away.
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The guy in the video, Cory Graffunder, races for Husqvarna in Enduro Cross and placed I think 3rd in Vegas last week.
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Well just reading you are afraid of using the clutch because you never want to replace one, tells me a lot about how you ride and why you think 125's are gutless with light switch like power (well that and it's obvious you've never ridden a modern well set up bike). Clutches on a small bore are your best friend for staying in power. You could NOT ride the trails I ride on your 120 or even 250, without using the clutch. I just taught my nephew yesterday how to clutch his CR80 for power when he couldn't get the bike up a nasty, but short, twisty rocky rutted climb. You cannot ignore things like rings and clutches on a two stroke and call it low maintenance. The correct term is neglect :D .
There is nothing wrong with wanting to just putt or lug around on a bigger bike. But you can't criticize smaller bikes and praiser big bores when you honestly just prefer to be a lazy rider. That doesn't make it a better off-road bike overall, that makes it better for your style.
EDIT: Which by the way I am just as guilty of as the next guy. I vehemently defend small bikes as good off-road bikes. But that is only because I enjoy riding a smaller, lighter bike fast. I enjoy that more than not riding a 500 to it's fullest abilities.
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Well put Coop,
I just figured out that not every one rides like my son and I.
Our trail rides are more like a 60-80 mile hare and hound race.
I don't know how my bikes would run on the sight seeing type of ride, I just have no interest in that.
None of my arguments make any sense when the riders are from another discipline of riding.
All I can say is I like my CR500 and for the type of riding that I do It is far superior.
For the type of riding you guys do, I don't see any need for Disc brakes, Liquid cooling or long travel suspensions.
Wheres the F'n Tylenol.
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Yep,the clutch is there to help keep the bike in the meat of the power.It can also be used to control the power and maintain traction in slippery conditions.watch how even a top trials guy uses the clutch. :o Talk about needing replacements often. :DYes small bore bike are also fun and fast.Pick your weapon and ride!
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125's have power but they are either on or off, pretty much same with 250 mx bikes, you really can't putt around on them.
Thanks for writing this because it explains quite a bit....
When some of use "Racers" talk about stuff, we wonder why some of you say the things you do, the statement above says it all.
Nothing against what you like, everyone likes something different, but some of the statements some of you have made have left me scratching my head and saying wtf???
If you are just going to putt around, I say have at it and enjoy every moment. But please when we are talking about racing at the highest levels of the sport of motocross, don't start talking about how a vintage bike would be a better choice! Please....
At local events or while riding on trails older or vintage bikes can be faster than modern bikes, because the rider is a better rider. When you move into the realm of Pro racing it's a totally different story. Many of the racers of are a similar ability and utilize the machinery close to it's potential... those two worlds are not the same.
Just my $.02
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I saw this video on youtube and thought it was cool so i shared it with everyone. I didnt think it would turn into a heated argument. We all either love motocross or trail riding. So not everyone will like the same bike you do. We all have our different opinion for why one bike is superior to another. I dont think it matters, as long as your able to go out and ride your fun and reliable two stroke. Who cares if someone likes their bike better than yours, just go out and ride. ;D ;D ;D
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We all either love motocross or trail riding. So not everyone will like the same bike you do. We all have our different opinion for why one bike is superior to another. I dont think it matters, as long as your able to go out and ride your fun and reliable two stroke. Who cares if someone likes their bike better than yours, just go out and ride. ;D ;D ;D
x 2
;D ;D
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A 125 can do immense slides, seemingly-impossible hill climbs, and turn out laps that appear to defy physics. But a 500 can do all of that easier, and safer with less wear on man and machine, as a general rule.
It's as if they didn't know I was on their side...
And John, when did I say a vintage bike would be better at the pro level? How could they be? Riding at the pro level is more like doing touch-and-gos on an aircraft carrier than it is like a race at Carlsbad. The sport they're built for doesn't exist, it's like using a baseball bat for tennis. I don't know why you brought that one up in this topic, but I'm responding to it anyway.
The reason I like a big-bore is because you can loaf around on it all day and get drunk in the low-end. It's fun to see just how low you can get that thing to rev without dying. After spending an entire life on small-bores (which includes 250s in my opinion, simply because "medium bore" sounds stupid) it was just something that made you go "damn!" But does that mean that I have to have a big bore and would never ride a 250 ever again? Of course not! I love my 250, and I don't plan on ever giving it up. When it's necessary, I'll slip the clutch and let it grind itself into a dust that costs more than its weight in gold. But before I do that I'll do that, I'll do everything in my power to negotiate the terrain without wearing down my components. Over the course of my life, the savings from that might just get me an extra bike, or a Caribbean cruise. :)
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And John, when did I say a vintage bike would be better at the pro level? How could they be?
What if I wasn't talking about you?? :o :o :o
I still love you buddy! :-* :-* :-*
The only reason I brought it up is because so many topics seem to .... umm drift.... into talks about vintage bikes. Hell I love vintage bikes! I just prefer to ride or race modern ones.
But worse than any of the drifting stuff is when folks talk about things like they know better than anyone, but have no experience with what they are talking about. If you have no experience why have such a set view on something?
(http://xlshirt.com/zencart/images/100_0647.jpg)
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HELP WANTED:
Anyone here live close to Jetz ?
I feel the need for someone to lend him a bike, post 2000 125 or 250.
Not trying to be a smart arse, but if you could ride a modern bike for a week jetz, you would understand what the rest of us are talking about.
You would be amazed 8)
:-X
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(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/SVCoop/Bikes/5188_98873738073_96073363073_2168580_6177199_n.jpg)
Frank gave me the specs on this bike:
"1972 Kawasaki S2 350 Triple... Crankcase milled .020", Bottom of cylinders milled .010", Heads milled .060", 24MM Mikuni carbs, Custom fabricated DynoPort exhaust, Hand build fuel cell, electric box, swingarm, Battery eliminator, '78 Suzuki RM125 front end grafted to Kawi main frame, '83 Honda XR500 rear wheel assembly. Runs great on Cam2 & Crisco @ a ratio of 32:1."
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I don't know how my bikes would run on the sight seeing type of ride, I just have no interest in that.
I'd take it on :) I try anything.
Yep,the clutch is there to help keep the bike in the meat of the power.It can also be used to control the power and maintain traction in slippery conditions.
Ya, you have to use the clutch on any bike, a 500 can make you lazy where you can use it less but where I ride I still need to use the clutch, even on a 500.
Thanks for writing this because it explains quite a bit....
When some of use "Racers" talk about stuff, we wonder why some of you say the things you do, the statement above says it all.
Ya, I'm not a racer, I'm an average rider. So the arguement here was simply about CR500 vs. other big bores and nothing else. My exprience was the CR500 did not make as good a trail bike as a Maico, engine wise and handling. If it's a rider issue and I've ridden both, and you think it would take a better rider to ride the CR500, then you would have to conceed the Maico is easier to ride since you don't have to be as good to achieve the same thing :)
Here is the difference in trail riding a smaller bike vs. a larger bike. You can be lazier on the larger bike, but I have never stated you couldn't trail ride a smaller bike in all the same places. Anywhere I've taken my bikes you could take a smaller bike.
KTM 495 Makes it look easy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpgTOBb0RJI#ws)
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For the type of riding you guys do, I don't see any need for Disc brakes, Liquid cooling or long travel suspensions.
They run ISDE's through areas I ride, so not sure wtf this is referring to, post vids of ur area (I can bench press 1000 pounds, no really I can - not trying to be insulting here, but I see a lot of paper tiger talk on message boards). Drum brakes are a disadvantage a lot of the time b/c you have to ride more cautiously and slower in dangerous areas.
Of course, I don't trust any brakes, I've had BOTH disc and drum brakes go completely out on me, so I always ride a bit cautiously since no one pays me to ride and I have to make it to work on Monday :)
I had a cable break unknowningly, luckly I was just on a hill when I grabbed my front brake (yes, disc brakes) and found it had all the fluid run out b/c the cable snapped near the caliper.
I had a bolt break and snap off the rear brake rod on drum brakes, going down the road, luckily wasn't fast and found I was missing rear brakes!
LC is another thing I worry about, a friend of mine blew his bike up in the woods when a hose clamp loosened and leaked out unknowingly and his bike just blew up without warning.
Air cooling tho always have to keep an eye out on hot days and make sure do not overheat. Of course, I've had friends LC bikes overheat from them riding too slow in single track, that fan you can get for the rads is a good idea b/c still need air flow thru the rads to cool the bike down.
Maicos on the Edge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E1zxs89cbw#ws)
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Personally i am faster on a modern bike in the woods.Yes even in the tight nasty st.Vintage bikes are great on an off weekend.Now get out and ride! ;D
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HELP WANTED:
Anyone here live close to Jetz ?
I feel the need for someone to lend him a bike, post 2000 125 or 250.
Not trying to be a smart arse, but if you could ride a modern bike for a week jetz, you would understand what the rest of us are talking about.
You would be amazed 8)
:-X
What about me? I want to ride a "modern" dirtbike too ;D
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What about me? I want to ride a "modern" dirtbike too
What bike do you ride now?
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Hey, if you guys want to set it up for me to try a modern bike, go ahead. Just don't expect me to like it better. I hear a Chevy Cobalt can beat a '68 Hemi Charger at the Nurburgring too, but take a guess at which one I like more. ;)
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Been riding an '85 KDX200, I bought it for $300 dollars less than a year ago, little thing is pretty surprising so far. Also have my '89 YZ490 I've yet to take out this season, a '77 Maico 400AW that's in need of a nice restoration and can't forget the little '89 YZ80 which is pretty wicked. Previously had a '76 Husky 360WR and a '76 YZ175 plus a bunch more that just passed through my life.
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For the type of riding you guys do, I don't see any need for Disc brakes, Liquid cooling or long travel suspensions.
They run ISDE's through areas I ride, so not sure wtf this is referring to, post vids of ur area (I can bench press 1000 pounds, no really I can - not trying to be insulting here, but I see a lot of paper tiger talk on message boards). Drum brakes are a disadvantage a lot of the time b/c you have to ride more cautiously and slower in dangerous areas.
I didn't mean the terrain was easy, Just a relaxed pace. Not trying to be insulting. but the vid you posted to prove Maico superiority was of a newb crawling up a relatively easy 2nd gear hill just off idle. I really was impressed that the Maico would pull down that low, It is obviously well tuned.
Other videos of group rides at a relaxed pace to prove the CR500 will get stuck on wet leaves WTF?
Your out there having a good time, That's great, But turning every thread into old bikes are better with 10 freakin videos to prove it is lame.
I'm not saying I'm super fast, But I am competitive in my class. There is not one person with a D37 plate on their bike that rides that slow without a flat.
If You think old maicos are better than modern bikes you are not alone, But I disagree with both of you.
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I didn't mean the terrain was easy, Just a relaxed pace. Not trying to be insulting. but the vid you posted to prove Maico superiority was of a newb crawling up a relatively easy 2nd gear hill just off idle. I really was impressed that the Maico would pull down that low, It is obviously well tuned.
Other videos of group rides at a relaxed pace to prove the CR500 will get stuck on wet leaves WTF?
Your out there having a good time, That's great, But turning every thread into old bikes are better with 10 freakin videos to prove it is lame.
I'm not saying I'm super fast, But I am competitive in my class. There is not one person with a D37 plate on their bike that rides that slow without a flat.
If You think old maicos are better than modern bikes you are not alone, But I disagree with both of you.
This was never a old vs. new, it was a Cr500 makes a bad trail bike IMHO. Thats it. CR500 is an old bike BTW, it was never updated since the early 90s. They make do make new Maicos.
Let's see ur stuff then, put ur money where your mouth is :) I never said I was the best as you seem to claim but at least I show what I do and I have riden all the bikes I talk about, which apparently you have never even riden a Maico to form an opinion.
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(http://blog.islandreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/movie-cartoon.jpg)
Alright, this is gonna be good!
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If you have no experience why have such a set view on something?
(http://xlshirt.com/zencart/images/100_0647.jpg)
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I'll even go and say forget comparing against a Maico 490 or KTM 495/500. A brand new KTM 300 is better in the woods than a CR500, I've ridden those and I have to say that they are quite good on the trails. Then u can't claim I am the one saying old bikes are better.
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Here are my Antiques
1922 CR500 Best bike ever
(http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/GlennC_08/WestCoast_102308014.jpg)
Me On my way to a 1st place finish in a D37 Hare and hound race 2009
On my 1961 CR250
(http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/GlennC_08/D37_011109002.jpg)
Father and Son
another D37 race Me 2nd in class son 3rd in class, On our classic Honda's
(http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/GlennC_08/11109024.jpg)
My 1955 YZ250 Best bike ever made i tell ya
(http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/GlennC_08/Bike51010005.jpg)
My Classic Honda Road Bike its a 1955 dream 305
(http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/GlennC_08/Glenn081307012.jpg)
My old Triumph Its the best bike ever made
(http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/GlennC_08/ride_7_2009014.jpg)
I dont have any videos, But who wants to se and old c rider run over a pile of rocks anyway.
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I agree the KTM 300 is a great off road bike. and better than the OOOOOOOOOOOOLD CR500, But the YZ 250 is pretty good as well.
I have never ridden a Maico, Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying that they aren't going to be competitive with modern bikes in a race setting.
I don't race the 500, I use it for training, Usually go race mileage + 10 in the same or rougher terrain for three weeks before a race.
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In the desert I would change my opinion, the CR500 would be great there and I'd gear mine high and do 100 MPH.
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In the desert I would change my opinion, the CR500 would be great there and I'd gear mine high and do 100 MPH.
10-4
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BTW, I do own maicos with Disc brakes and liquid cooling, I'm gearing the transmission in this one for enduro right now (lowering 1st and 2nd gear and primary drive), my next year's ride.
(http://www.maicowerk.com/Images/MStar/1986500/mstar3.jpg)
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Is that the stock pipe and radiator shrouds? Because they look drastically different from the pipe and shrouds on my dad's '86 M-Star (unless I'm remembering wrong, which is possible given that the 500 has been buried in the garage for three years.)
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For me the definition of vintage can change, sometime it depends on who you are riding with... One group I ride with is mostly younger 18 - mid 20's, to them my 2000 KTM is a vintage bike. Another group, 35-60 year olds, my KTM is practically new... So vintage can be in the eye of the beholder...
For me a 2000 is not a vintage bike, its the perfect bike for me... Sure I'd like to have a new 2011 6 speed KTM 300 XC, but finances dictate I keep the old girl. She may be getting older, but she does everything I ask of her, but best of all she doesn't cost me anything.
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For me a 2000 is not a vintage bike, its the perfect bike for me... Sure I'd like to have a new 2011 6 speed KTM 300 XC, but finances dictate I keep the old girl. She may be getting older, but she does everything I ask of her, but best of all she doesn't cost me anything.
I don't know how you ride the trails on a bike from 2000. Crap, I don't know how any one rides a bike from 2009, can you imagine using disc brakes from 2009? Do they stop you? Crap, where I ride if the brakes aren't from a 2011 bike you just can't stop! The brakes just don't work up here! :)
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GlennC: Thats the best looking 1922 CR500 i have ever seen. ;)
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Yeah, especially considering they never even made CR500s until 1983!
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Yeah, especially considering they never even made CR500s until 1983!
Well it was obviously a joke...
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Well yeah. The dirt-bike had yet to even be invented in the 1920s.
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Well yeah. The dirt-bike had yet to even be invented in the 1920s.
I beg to differ.
Considering most of the roads on the planet were dirt back then, I would say all early bikes were dirt bikes. ;D
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Good point. Would be real interesting to go back in time with a modern (I'll let everyone define "modern" on their own) bike and show them how it's done. You'd be like a God among Men with your fancy "two stroke" thing.
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GlennC: Thats the best looking 1922 CR500 i have ever seen. ;)
Thanks Kiwi,
I'm the original owner. :o
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Is that the stock pipe and radiator shrouds?
Nope, Maico Only pipe, Rad Shrouds are prolly after market replica