Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: eprovenzano on September 29, 2017, 04:51:01 AM
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Just thinking here... I'm looking at possibly going to either the Lectron or Smart Carb instead of the current Keihin carb. Are the Lectron or Smart Carb really worth the $400 investment? Yes I've been reading tons of web pages, but of us most only post the issues with each, and not the success stories. Anyone out there running either the Lectron or Smart Carb, and are you happy with it's performance?
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I have a Lectron on my 2015 KTM 300xc, it was worth every penny of the $400.
I often ride with a group of guys who really love super tight twisty trails so it isn't uncommon for a 4 hour trail ride to be 90% on the pilot jet. I tried everything to get the Kiehin to carburet cleanly at the 0-1/8 range and never could tune the burble out of it or the tendency to load up when spending an extended period in that range.
I was already using the smallest pilot jet available for the PWK, I tried different needles, and even the next leaner slide and the next half step leaner slide than that. It was better but still not what I would call good.
The two options I considered for solving this problem were replacing the head with a high compression version that several engine builders believed was the root problem or, for about the same cost, installing the Lectron.
The Good:
- It completely solved my low opening richness problem.
- The carb comes preset to your your specifications and only fine tuning is required. I ended up going 1/2 turn leaner on the metering rod and 1/2 turn richer on the power jet. Both of which are easy to do without removing the carb from the bike.
- Throttle response is greatly improved, especially 0-1/4, to the point I almost tossed myself off the back of the bike on the first ride by not being prepared when I wicked the throttle.
- Once it is set up to your liking it really is very indifferent to altitude and temperature changes. I ride off road mostly in the winter which in Western Washington equals near sea level and temps from 30-70F. I have taken it east and ridden in the spring at around 2,000ft and temps in the upper 70s to low 80s with no noticeable change in performance.
- The see through float bowl is cool and lets you eyeball the float level
The bad:
- The carb body is longer than the Keihin and required cutting the clamp grove off the rear air boot. I bought a spare just to be on the safe side. Without the retaining grove for the clamp you have to be very careful to make sure the clamp stays straight when you tighten it.
- The choke knob is on the pipe side of my KTM and the only option they have for moving it is a cable. I would like a lever instead like Mikuni does.
- The cap is held on with phillips screws which makes it harder to get off to adjust the metering rod. I switched them for alan head.
Overall I am very happy with it and consider it well worth the cost.
--Ron.
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The reason I ask is I'm on a KTM 380 which is notorious for difficult jetting. After some trial and error and a lot of reading, I've had it dialed in to where I liked it. Recently I've noticed it loading up a bit at mid to full throttle not sure it's a lean bog, or too much fuel. It will clean up and run like a scalded ape, but I admit at times I'm a perfectionist, and I like my bikes to be 100% spot on... So I'm going to do some jetting adjustments, and see where that takes me, but I've always had in the back of my mind that I'd love to try a Lectron or a Smartcarb.
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This past weekend I fouled a plug... 1st time in many, many years... Now most of the day I was riding behind my son's 5 year old as we escorted him to and from a safe riding area. But when I fouled the plug, I was hauling arse through the woods... I've been running Amsoil Dominator for quite a long time... but recently my supplier retired, and I've not found it locally. After some extensive research, I've decided to switch to Bel-Ray MC-1.
Since the switch I've not been happy with the bikes jetting... I now have a rich bog at 1/2 to throttle, more smoke than I'm happy with. I've always been running 3 ounce's to a gallon (43:1) The BellRay seems to be much thicker, and doesn't want to mix like the Amsoil. After trying the 43:1 mixture I went to 2 ounces to a gallon (64:1). The bike seemed to respond better, but fouled a plug... So I am officially on the hunt to two things... A new Amsoil dealer, and I'll be seriously looking at the Lectron & Smart Carb as a future upgrade.
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This past weekend I fouled a plug... 1st time in many, many years... Now most of the day I was riding behind my son's 5 year old as we escorted him to and from a safe riding area. But when I fouled the plug, I was hauling arse through the woods... I've been running Amsoil Dominator for quite a long time... but recently my supplier retired, and I've not found it locally. After some extensive research, I've decided to switch to Bel-Ray MC-1.
Since the switch I've not been happy with the bikes jetting... I now have a rich bog at 1/2 to throttle, more smoke than I'm happy with. I've always been running 3 ounce's to a gallon (43:1) The BellRay seems to be much thicker, and doesn't want to mix like the Amsoil. After trying the 43:1 mixture I went to 2 ounces to a gallon (64:1). The bike seemed to respond better, but fouled a plug... So I am officially on the hunt to two things... A new Amsoil dealer, and I'll be seriously looking at the Lectron & Smart Carb as a future upgrade.
So something to keep in mind: Less oil (leaner) = more fuel going through the jets (richer.) Going from 43:1 to 64:1 is going to make your jetting richer across the board and potentially lead to fouled plugs if it was borderline rich to start with.
--Ron.
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I'm sure that both are good, but the carb is not your problem.
I was thinking about this yesterday. I watched with great interest as the smart carb discussion accidentally kick started a Lectron discussion and people started buying them (and not smart carbs) in droves. The Lectron became the darling carb on Cafe Husky (and elsewhere), people singing their praises and boasting that the days of constantly jetting were over. Then came the custom metering rods, and the threads on which rod to use, how to set it up, how to make the bike stop doing this and that - and lightly used Lectrons for sale. I found the whole thing really interesting on several fronts.
Anyway, if you're fouling plugs with the new oil at 60-1, you have either a jetting problem or low compression. The Husky bike that I ride is notorious for difficult jetting and many mistakenly swap the TMX out for a PWK or Lectron. The real problem is that they have very low compression, especially with the 144 factory big bore. So I increased my compression and fixed the squish. Now (still with the TMX) I have no spooge and crisp power from top to bottom.
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So something to keep in mind: Less oil (leaner) = more fuel going through the jets (richer.) Going from 43:1 to 64:1 is going to make your jetting richer across the board and potentially lead to fouled plugs if it was borderline rich to start with.
--Ron.
You are correct sir... I think I need to go one notch leaner on the needle... I'm also going to pick up some new jets one size up and one size lower so I can get her back to where I'm happy with the jetting....
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I'm sure that both are good, but the carb is not your problem.
I was thinking about this yesterday. I watched with great interest as the smart carb discussion accidentally kick started a Lectron discussion and people started buying them (and not smart carbs) in droves. The Lectron became the darling carb on Cafe Husky (and elsewhere), people singing their praises and boasting that the days of constantly jetting were over. Then came the custom metering rods, and the threads on which rod to use, how to set it up, how to make the bike stop doing this and that - and lightly used Lectrons for sale. I found the whole thing really interesting on several fronts.
Anyway, if you're fouling plugs with the new oil at 60-1, you have either a jetting problem or low compression. The Husky bike that I ride is notorious for difficult jetting and many mistakenly swap the TMX out for a PWK or Lectron. The real problem is that they have very low compression, especially with the 144 factory big bore. So I increased my compression and fixed the squish. Now (still with the TMX) I have no spooge and crisp power from top to bottom.
thanks beaner... The old girl's got plenty of compression... The running joke in my riding circle for those asking to take a ride on the 380 is, If you can kick start it, you can ride it. It takes a strong kick to turn over the motor...
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UPDATE
I "thought" my jetting setting were correct.. after careful review they were not... :-[ I thought I had the A/S set at 2 turns... nope, it was 1/2. I remember having a lean idle a while ago and adjusted the A/S to clean it up. Also the idle always seemed a little low even though the idle screw was in pretty far... So I pulled the carb for a cleaning, and some rejetting. I swapped out the 45PJ for a 48, and set the A/S at 2.25 turns as a starting point. I also turned the idle screw turned out several turns.
I reinstalled the carb, fuel line etc, and kicked her over. Started easily and settled into a nice idle (a little high, but damn good for a 1st attempt) let her warm up and took it around the house... Damn I think I found a few missing ponies.... I didn't get the chance to really ride it other then around the house, but the throttle response was really good. During my next ride I'll need to tweak the A/S a small amount, and the idle but I think I found the issue... The bike has always ran a little on the rich side... After following my cousin's son on his 50, I'm sure I really got the opportunity to open it uo. With the A/S at 1/2 turn, I believe it wasn't getting enough air for a proper burn, causing too much oil / spooge. I think this change should help with that.
As I was swapping out the PJ, I remember my son's 300 having a similar issue... we were always chasing a lean idle on his bike. I ended swapping out the 45PJ for a 48, reset the A/S at 2 turns and it's been stone cold reliable ever since... Why didn't I think of that earlier??? I wish I had an answer (lazy I guess) My guess is that the 380 has been running so good, I didn't want to touch it... This slight change should make it that much better... Funny, but now both my 380, and son's 300 are running very similar jetting settings
48PJ
175MJ
CEK Needle, 2nd clip
A/S 2 - 2.25 turns
The 380 has a 7.0 slide, while the 300 has a 6.5
I'll report back after this weekends ride.
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Good to read you are getting it sorted out man.
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Weekend ride, temps in the low 70's. My riding club was hosting KTM Demo days, so due to the large number of riders, two separate trails were setup, both with one way traffic, the easier loop was 8 miles, and the AA loop was 10. We rode the AA trail 1st... rested hydrated, and rode the easier loop. By this time I knew my A/S was slightly on the lean side as I have a sight lean idle... adjust the A/S in 1/4 turn to (2) and cured 95% of the lean idle... Next time out, I'll re-adjust based on if the weather starts getting colder...
For now I'm a happy man and wanting to go riding again...