Post by: msambuco on December 17, 2014, 05:05:31 AM
Post by: motoman356 on December 17, 2014, 03:58:35 PM
Post by: bigboreroost on December 18, 2014, 01:43:51 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 18, 2014, 02:39:58 AM
Post by: msambuco on December 18, 2014, 03:57:35 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 18, 2014, 06:14:42 AM
Stewie on a 2 stoke would be a new younger man...Just sayin.....
Note that I said PRO racing. While I don't think you will see him line up again next year, maybe not even this years nationals, he may very well end up racing on a smaller scale for a few more years yet.
But I can honestly say I really hope he proves me wrong. I really hope he swallows the disappointment and puts in a REAL last season next year. How awesome would it be if he won a championship again? I dont understand why they even bothered with the appeal to be honest. Even if he gets his name cleared, supercross will be half way over at best before he lines up behind the gate.
Post by: bigboreroost on December 18, 2014, 03:06:41 PM
Agreed. This would be a rotten end to a career.
That being said I wonder what the guy could do on a trials bike?
EDIT: Found this elsewhere. The AMA response to the FIM.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 18, 2014, 04:17:09 PM
Post by: kim wedding on December 18, 2014, 05:16:34 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 18, 2014, 10:06:10 PM
FIM/AMA are sanctioning bodies. They make the rules. "Do Gooders" and whiney babies crying "It's Unfair!" have complained enough for them to institute an "Anti-Doping" rule similar to other professional sports. This rule is the same for everyone and does not play favorites. Of course, there are some non-performance related medications (pot) on the list due to political correctness but there is also a provision in the rule for medically required exemptions. In the provision, you have to request to be exempted BEFORE you race AND be approved. Obviously, some medication/performance enhancing drugs will prohibit you from competing. Everyone who is pee-tested is made aware of this and must sign stating you understand. It is also in the rule book and nothing new.
We may never know what was going through Bubba's (or his handlers) head - whether it was arrogance or an honest mistake, but he did race and he did fail a pee-test. He also admitted in arbitration that he was taking a medication with the banned substance. He then subsequently submitted the request for exemption (and was granted, I might add). Again it could be arrogance or a mistake but he expected it all to just go away.
Now the AMA just passed the buck. They didn't want to upset sponsors, promoters, or fans so they just passed it all the way to the FIM. Their mistake was in not dealing with it directly and immediately. It would have been so simple to dock him points for the one race, get the TUE and continue on. Maybe the FIM Anti-Doping Code removes their ability to do that. Maybe they were under threat from Bubba's lawyers, who knows. They didn't and just passed the buck.
The FIM did exactly what it always does in cases like this. They appointed an impartial representative, in this case Mr Anand Sashidharan of India. This is an important note because it shows the lengths the FIM was willing to go to ensure Bubba received a "fair" arbitration. Did they take too long? Just shy of 2 months doesn't sound very long to me. If it had gone "to court", it could have taken years! It is an international organization and one doesn't just drop everything to jet to Switzerland to arbitrate a case. One thing is for sure, there is no doubt or argument on either side that he is guilty of violating the FIM Anti-Doping Code.
Now I am not accusing Bubba of anything but what I am going to say might sound like it. I am just speculating. What they found in the urine sample was amphetamine (speed - come on, that is funny. The Fastest Man on the Planet (tm) is on SPEED!). They didn't find his ADHD drug, only a component of it (because that is all they were looking for). But supposing he was actually taking Speed (amphetamine) recreationally or as a performance enhancer? I can find him a Doc who will prescribe it for him, even get him to back date the script. You can't tell me Suzuki can't do it too. And here's another thing; he claims to have taken it since he was a child? Oh Really? He was damn near a professional rider (for Kawasaki's Team Green) growing up. He has raced at the top levels of his classes for almost 25 years. He turned pro 14 years ago and has been a dominant force the entire time. Are you REALLY going to tell me that he only just now failed a pee-test? All the while taking this medication all these years?
So looking at it with this information, the question isn't "Is Bubba guilty?" The only question is whether "the punishment fits the crime." I am not sure if the FIM Anti-Doping Code has proscribed or recommended sentencing (and I am not going to look it up). It does seem coincidental that by back dating to the urinalyses date, it encompasses the next season. But by considering my supposition above, I can only think it is fair.
Although I appreciate Rob Dingman sticking up for Bubba with the FIM (it is the first time I can remember the AMA doing that for someone NOT on a Harley!), I personally think it is a knee jerk reaction to the money the AMA (and the multiple mentioned partners) are going to lose by not having their star performer on stage...although I do agree, the FIM did handle the verdict poorly. It should have been handed down to the AMA to disseminate to the member and "contract partners" (promoters).
And one more thing: There are a lot of people calling for the AMA to dump the FIM. Those people are naïve. The FIM is a Federation and the AMA is the US representative of that federation. The AMA can no more leave the federation than California can join Canada. For all my AMA and FIM bashing, we wouldn't have what we do without them and a strong bond between us is crucial to the survival of our sport and motorcycling in general.
Post by: lauterbacher on December 18, 2014, 10:36:00 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 18, 2014, 11:01:44 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 18, 2014, 11:16:44 PM
Now I am not accusing Bubba of anything but what I am going to say might sound like it. I am just speculating. What they found in the urine sample was amphetamine (speed - come on, that is funny. The Fastest Man on the Planet (tm) is on SPEED!). They didn't find his ADHD drug, only a component of it (because that is all they were looking for). But supposing he was actually taking Speed (amphetamine) recreationally or as a performance enhancer? I can find him a Doc who will prescribe it for him, even get him to back date the script. You can't tell me Suzuki can't do it too. And here's another thing; he claims to have taken it since he was a child? Oh Really? He was damn near a professional rider (for Kawasaki's Team Green) growing up. He has raced at the top levels of his classes for almost 25 years. He turned pro 14 years ago and has been a dominant force the entire time. Are you REALLY going to tell me that he only just now failed a pee-test? All the while taking this medication all these years?
How long as the AMA been using the FIM anti doping policy though? I thought it was only recent.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 18, 2014, 11:55:40 PM
It was only recent that they started calling it a World Championship, thus started using the FIM name.
Post by: kim wedding on December 19, 2014, 04:03:17 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 19, 2014, 11:04:13 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 21, 2014, 10:06:27 AM
I think if you test the riders for drugs of any kind then the f.i.m. and the a.m.a. board members and track owners and others in mx should also be tested. Drugs that might explain the stupid rules in both organization. KIM
Actually Kim, I think in the AMA, they are tested (Insurance requirements). The FIM may be different because of the more libertarian attitudes of the various European states. For instance, in Germany, it is illegal for them to require a p-test so I know they wouldn't do it there. However, it is still legal to test athletes for some reason...it must be some labor thing (and since being an athlete is not a REAL job...).
Post by: shanes on December 21, 2014, 11:11:44 AM
no ones fault but his own he and his management know the rules so why didn't they just declare it ?
Post by: brazilian2stroker on December 21, 2014, 12:57:15 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 21, 2014, 06:25:24 PM
the thing is he failed for amphetamines not for ADD medication the test can't tell what it is , for all they know he could have been taking speed or ice . he told them it was from the doctor but it could be anything , that is why they have to declare it before hand .
no ones fault but his own he and his management know the rules so why didn't they just declare it ?
Thats exactly right. All the test showed positive for was amphetamines. Its impossible to get an exact source of said amphetamine. It could have been anything from ADD meds to high level steriods. This is a key bit of information that all the media seems t be missing.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 22, 2014, 09:48:03 AM
As Stu points out, when a sample is collected, it is tested only for key markers that indicate certain substances that they are looking for. They are only looking for these flags and others chemicals will not be in the report. Also (as Stu correctly points out) it is impossible to tell where the identified substance came from. Now if it was Cocaine, there is no (legal) way for it to get into your system. If it was Marijuana, some over the counter health supplements and even poppy seed bagels have been known to trip it up. For amphetamines, there are a number of legal uses but there are just as many illegal uses. It is a popular recreational and performance enhancing drug. And if you are a Rolling Stones fan, sing it with me: "She went running for the shelter of her Mother's little helper..."
:...What a drag it is getting old."I think the thing condemning him is first, rather than deny it and request a second sample (which he can do), they quickly came out with an excuse. However, where that excuse fails is that in all these years, he never identified he was taking it AND he never failed a test before. Had they gave the (poor) excuse that his doctor changed the prescription and didn't inform them of the alternate substance (how many of YOU double check your doctors orders?), then I might have believed him and gave him a slap on the wrist. But when you have what appears to be a flagrant disregard for the rules...and with such high profile Doping cases (Lance Armstrong ring a bell?) in the international media, the FIM had to take a hard line stand - and rightly so.
Post by: rlaj1004 on December 22, 2014, 01:24:41 PM
So if he was taking a legitimate prescription, why wasn't it recorded, where is the Doctors orders, and on and on.
Personally I think most of those guys take stuff, for recovery, injury, pain etc. Like in professionaly cycling. You mentioned Lance, Every top cyclist is using some sort or performance enhancement. I read some statictics that stated if they went through the tour de france riders and disqualified ever rider that had at one time been suspected of doping they would eliminate the top 10 riders for the last 10 years or so. Lances biggest problems was that he is a bully and he is American in a European sport.
And MX, SX rider put their bodies through hell week after week. Some just have better Doctors for masking it than others.
My two cents worth anyway.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 23, 2014, 10:13:30 AM
The more I look into this phenomenon, the more I agree with the FIM. In no way should Stewie be allowed to ride and I doubt I'll support any company that would allow him to represent them during this time of "punishment".
You know, I am not a Jeff Emig fan, but I appreciate his ability on a bike, and his willingness to grow beyond his transgression. He was a rich playboy and had to put a lot of effort into "growing up". He lost his sponsor (Kawasaki) until he demonstrated the appropriate behavior during his probation. I still don't like his color commentating but I respect the work he has put in to get where he is. From a fan's point of view, he has redeemed himself. Now it is Bubba's turn.
Post by: rlaj1004 on December 23, 2014, 12:39:39 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 23, 2014, 10:02:54 PM
Talk about a sport with Doping problems, just Goggle "Tour de France Doping" and check out the wiki. I knew some of it was going on and the Armstrong case just topped it off but I had no idea it was so prevalent! If cycling has these problems, every top sport does. It is no wonder the International Organizations are cracking down.
The more I look into this phenomenon, the more I agree with the FIM. In no way should Stewie be allowed to ride and I doubt I'll support any company that would allow him to represent them during this time of "punishment".
You know, I am not a Jeff Emig fan, but I appreciate his ability on a bike, and his willingness to grow beyond his transgression. He was a rich playboy and had to put a lot of effort into "growing up". He lost his sponsor (Kawasaki) until he demonstrated the appropriate behavior during his probation. I still don't like his color commentating but I respect the work he has put in to get where he is. From a fan's point of view, he has redeemed himself. Now it is Bubba's turn.
As much as we all hate Emig's commentating, I most definitely respect him for picking himself up. Not a whole lot of guys could have come off beating Mc'grath (granted with the extensive help of mike larroco) to that low point and still rebound. And you know, in just about every sport, there is a commentator that people hate, and there is one that people like. I believe alot of what goes on in the booth with ralph, carmichael (or whoever is doing it) and Emig IS scripted out to add to the drama.