Post by: ktm150rippa on May 05, 2013, 03:20:31 PM
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/The-displacement-rule-change-it-just-happened,1254492
Post by: factoryX on May 05, 2013, 06:26:02 PM
Amazing game changer if true
http://www.motoverte.com/site/l-avenir-du-mx-selon-luongo-72273.html
You'll have to translate to English but it sounds like FIM is in the process of the switch already. TM stated they would have a new motor designed by next year if rules are put into place. I think they are taking a slap at the japs and trying to force them to develop smaller bikes, and I sort of agree. This would awesome for the sport.
Post by: DESERTFOX19 on May 05, 2013, 06:54:52 PM
Post by: factoryX on May 05, 2013, 06:57:39 PM
Post by: eprovenzano on May 05, 2013, 07:39:09 PM
Post by: factoryX on May 05, 2013, 08:54:32 PM
Post by: Jeram on May 05, 2013, 09:29:18 PM
Might even get ourselves some OEM Japanese 300s out of this!
Post by: factoryX on May 05, 2013, 09:34:03 PM
Post by: SwapperMX on May 05, 2013, 11:09:57 PM
And a World GP here in Aus next year as well. That would be awesome !!
Post by: Lolerbabop on May 05, 2013, 11:12:49 PM
Post by: shanes on May 05, 2013, 11:15:05 PM
as bad as the spanish supermoto series , before it was S1 and S2 now just open class up to 700cc for 4 stroke but you can only run a max of 300 2 stroke . they will never make it even
Post by: twosmoke595 on May 05, 2013, 11:42:14 PM
We do not hide you had our concerns about the survival of the MX2 class since the advent of the GP 'overseas' the Super Final extensively highlighted by some close to the boss Youthstream. And if it does not hide being excited about the fight at any level that animated the Super Finals Qatar and Thailand, he followed the general opinion now in the MX2 class as such.
Two different rounds
If MXGP MX2 and still compete on two legs, they will however be a time and a different impact since the points will not be awarded in the same way in both categories. Only the MXGP have the right to special treatment under the famous TV program one hour for chains 'widely'. The precise arrangements have not yet been arrested, but the goal is the winner of the second round is the winner of the race and climbed onto the top step of the podium, so that the uninformed public can understand what is happening . Some no doubt regret this new, but the key is that the MX2 is a separate category.
Two more years for 450
Worried when the fact that very few drivers are MX2 input competitive game MX1 boss Youthstream confirms that within two years will require that the displacement of aligned MXGP machine is lowered. "It is not for me to say if it should be 350, 380 or 400, but manufacturers must produce motorcycles less violent and easier conduisibles for many drivers. If the number of drivers present in MX1 decreases, is not the fact that we have removed the premiums, but the fact that very few drivers are capable of driving the motorcycle at a high level, "he says, taking for example the difficulty drivers from the MX2 to obtain good results from their accession in this category.
What reaction builders?
"In 2007 at the Motocross of Nations, many of the most important European and American paddocks managers came to see the FIM to ask that this capacity is lowered. They then did an about-face for the Japanese manufacturers do not want to hear about, but today the situation has changed. Manufacturers no longer reasoning according to the U.S. market, but the global market and emerging countries where the average displacement sell better than the big guns. A small plant like TM confirmed to me to be able to produce a new engine within a year, I do not see why a Japanese manufacturer could do. And do not tell me that the engine can be operated in mass to the quads and jet skiing for example, does a MotoGP engine is sold on a motorcycle trade? "He continued.
The return of two time
Another area that will be developed in the coming months, the equivalence of displacement between two and four times. FIM and Youthstream want to promote the return of both time and everything suggests that along with the maximum displacement of the four-stroke 400cm3 be around, the two time could be allowed up to 300 cm3 in the category MXGP. An experiment could have him on a European championship in 2014, removing the MX3 World has also been confirmed in this exchange which no representative of the FIM was not involved. It was during the meeting in the FIM mid-June in the presence of representatives of the manufacturers that should be fixed all the new rules in the World 2014.
Eighteen GP
Questioned further on the calendar in 2014, the boss is always talking Youthstream 18 GP, including Qatar, Thailand, Brazil and Mexico, an event that would be organized by the promoter of the World Rally Championship. Discussions are well advanced with Australia and continue with Japan. The world could begin with a tour Qatar / Thailand / Japan or Australia, a break of two weeks before moving on the South American tour, then return to Europe later in the season to take advantage of better weather conditions. Stay tuned on motoverte.com, of course!
Post by: 2T Institute on May 06, 2013, 05:16:23 AM
Post by: TMKIWI on May 06, 2013, 08:33:35 AM
Bring back the 125's and have an open class. And I mean OPEN.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 06, 2013, 08:48:40 AM
I'll bet my left nut that if this gets passed, and all the japs start pumping out 400cc four stonks, not one of them will loose any major peak horsepower.
Post by: 2T Institute on May 06, 2013, 09:56:20 AM
When the life and rpm limits were introduced in F1 the output dropped but by mid season HP had been recovered.Most of the engine life goals were reached with just better thermal management and some low friction coatings.
With 400cc torque would be lost, power would come through increased RPM, they have no technical parameter which engines must conform to either (stroke, rod length, rpm limit, ECU etc etc etc).
The 400cc engie would be difficult to ride fast.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 06, 2013, 10:35:12 AM
Post by: Jeram on May 06, 2013, 10:46:05 AM
Post by: Jeram on May 06, 2013, 10:49:30 AM
This is a completely retarded idea and they waste of space that thought it up needs to find another job. All this is going to do, is make the open class more expensive. Need an example? All the KTM 350SXF is is a high revving 450. apart from the 2 pound difference. Makes MORE horsepower than the CRF450R just at a higher RPM. It can run with the big 450s, at a higher RPM. Thats all this is going to do. Although the extra 300ccs for the two stroke is a start... But it needs to be equal.
I'll bet my left nut that if this gets passed, and all the japs start pumping out 400cc four stonks, not one of them will loose any major peak horsepower.
Its a brilliant idea (FOR US!)
make the 4T even more expensive to run, while the factory 300 2T lasts all season!
Post by: Stusmoke on May 06, 2013, 12:43:17 PM
in motogp all engine covers have seals on then. you cant even adjust the valve clearances without breaking the seal!
But those things scream like a hospital labour ward!!! How do they hold together?!
Post by: scotty dog on May 06, 2013, 01:13:43 PM
That's what I reckon too, while the fooper teams go broke, the smoker teams will be thriving which will allow them topay for the best riders
Its a brilliant idea (FOR US!)
make the 4T even more expensive to run, while the factory 300 2T lasts all season!
Post by: 2T Institute on May 07, 2013, 02:09:34 AM
How they get such high outputs and long life, would be a secret, but it's no secret they are all doing it and doing it very easily. I do know the oil/filter gets changed after every session, and a dry clutch helps keep contamination of the plain bearings to virtualy nothing.
Engines themselves won't be that expensive maybe 10,000Euros what will be a catch is if a factory asks silly money for a service or lease agreement.
I wouldn't expect any teams to go broke, I would expect factory and supported teams to run the 4T and private/ second tier teams to run the 2T.
Post by: bearorso on May 07, 2013, 03:59:39 PM
He's been behind all of the various F*** ups in the GPs, whether it's been as an employee, or an owner of whichever 'organisation' that is 'promoting' the MX GPs.
It was purely a press meeting, to 'discuss' things with the MC Press - a few of which are his lap dogs.
I can only hope most of them aren't, and that they tear him a new arsehole for putting forward more BS, in their magazines and websites.
He's achieved his stated ambition of having only 20 /25 riders in the MX1 class, but now he's dealing with the reality of only having that number. MXGP, is Not Moto GP. Somehow, he thinks it can reach those levels of public interest. Not F***ing likely, and certainly Not by stuffing the sport up, even more than he has done so already, over so many years.
He's looking for the Golden Goose - for himself = being paid big dollars for the rights to a p**s poor , 1 hour live TV package.
Money, is all he cares about. Money for HIM.
I'd say the major companies have drilled into him that THEY want a viable MX2 class, with which to promote their main selling MXers (and, of course, ALL their other products - it's about the COMPANY NAME, not the type of bike. The Super Final format, would drive the 250 class, into irrelevancy. And the companies do not want that.
In June (I think it is) Luongo / Youthstream will be having further meetings with the manufacturers. He's tried the 350 idea before, with backing from KTM, but it was shot down by the Japanese companies. For them, now is not the time to make / develop 350 to 400s. They are happy to make, and sell, 450s. And, as a life long follower of MX, Now And Never, is the time for dumbing down the Premier Class of Motocross - it's been bastardised enough by the 250 2t / 450 4t rules.
The BS about 450s being too fast is just that - BS. The argument for going to 800s in Moto GP was along those very same lines - 'safety'. Well, they just went faster, and the bikes became even more high tech and expensive to run - far more so than the 990s - and the 500cc 2,3 and 4 cylinder 2ts, well, they were in the league of 'chump change' by any comparison.
450s, are not too fast - just as 500 MXers weren't. But, the 500s, held little interest for the manufacturers. Precisely the opposite is true with the 450s.
For once, I want the manufacturers to give Luongo and his pets in the FIM, a thorough Kicking. What is being regurgitated, in the form of 380s /400s as the 'premier class', is BS of the highest order. And we need the big manufacturers, including KTM (the biggest of the lot, in terms of participation in World MX GPs), to tell Luongo, and Wolfgang Srb, to go F*** themselves, in no uncertain manner.
I actually think, Luongo may be putting out the capacity reduction, plus the 2t capacity increase, to enable his other 'ideas' to be 'rubber stamped'. Throw those out there, to get the manufacturers attention, to then back down on, and have the other, equally ruinous 'rules' OK'd / put through.
Don't be bloody saps and think a potential 300cc 2t / 400cc 4t class is a good thing - just because we'd get an extra 50cc onto a 250cc 2t.
You'd just be showing your gullibility, and it would knock, completely on the head, the chance of ever having a 250cc equivalency class (and may lead to it disappearing where it has been allowed) at World and AMA Outdoors / SX level. And Any chance of equivalency in the Premier Class, be it 400 4t max, 450 max, or the best Real Class we could hope for, an up to 500 "Any Stroke Type" class .
Post by: factoryX on May 07, 2013, 08:57:31 PM
. When it comes to power output 500 should be against 450's, 250 2t's vs. 250f's(Which are known for putting out faster lap times than 450's do), and 125 should be 125. 300 versus 400 would be sweet but it will still put 250 2t's in a hard place. It should be 85/125/250/open. It makes the most sense, and its surprising to see people not getting it.
Post by: 2T Institute on May 08, 2013, 12:42:29 AM
MotoGP got more expensive from the fuel limits not the CC decrease, which required complex electronics and people to program the trick boxes. That came from the manufacturers themselves as the only way to justify racing budgets to company boards.
Post by: DESERTFOX19 on May 15, 2013, 10:20:33 PM
Post by: factoryX on May 15, 2013, 10:55:56 PM
Post by: TMKIWI on May 16, 2013, 09:15:47 AM
Post by: 2T Institute on May 17, 2013, 08:46:18 AM