Two Stroke Motocross

Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: cnrcpla on March 14, 2013, 04:53:44 PM

Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: cnrcpla on March 14, 2013, 04:53:44 PM
I plan on running lots of track races and lots of hare scrambles this season. But I noticed towards the end of my woods riding season that the 110's (M404) just aren't hooking up as much as I'd like in the mud (understandably) and the sand. I was thinking of running 120's for the sake of woods racing, but how would this affect my track handling? I don't want to sacrifice any flickability or cornering speed, so maybe stick with a better 110? And I'm looking for a durable tire as well, my 250 eats rear tires like candy  ;D
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: _X_ on March 14, 2013, 05:06:14 PM
hey cnrcpla my woods buddies run either the maxxis max cross SI or the dunlop 952.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: cnrcpla on March 14, 2013, 06:18:04 PM
In the standard 110 tire size? I'm dying to find something that hooks up half way decent in the woods.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ford832 on March 14, 2013, 07:02:44 PM
I wouldn't deviate from the the 110.A michelin s12 is my rear tire of choice for everything with an m12 front(not the other way way around-terrible combination)
I've tried most all and keep coming back to this set up.When I find something better for wear and traction in all conditions,I'll post it up. :)
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: _X_ on March 14, 2013, 07:15:43 PM
i'm with ford on the size issue. its probably your currant tire tread as opposed to tire width that is not hooking up.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ford832 on March 14, 2013, 08:14:06 PM
One last thought on the size.If you go with a Michelin,make sure it's an actual 110.Sometimes there's a sticker on the side designating that.A typical Michelin 130 is a 110 in everything else.Why?Nobody knows except that they're frenchies and that's what Frenchies do. ::)
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: vetman on March 14, 2013, 08:48:47 PM
Im a michelin fan as well they hold up well the s12 is great i do like the ms3 as well but more durabillity and the m12 is great if conditions get a bit harder although you cant turn it as to the sizing a cant say i really notice a dramatic difference between the 110 and 120
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: beaner on March 15, 2013, 12:42:06 AM
True. The 110 Michelin on my 125 looks like a bicycle tire    ::)
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: SachsGS on March 15, 2013, 02:09:09 AM
Bigger (wider) tires weigh more and affect suspension and acceleration. I personally don't like Michelins (at all) and prefer to run either Metzler, Dunlop or Pirelli.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: _X_ on March 15, 2013, 02:17:55 AM
wich make of those brands sachs? the kid needs to know to form his consensus. lets go here, help a brother out.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ford832 on March 15, 2013, 02:32:03 AM
Quote from: beaner on March 15, 2013, 07:42:06 AM
True. The 110 Michelin on my 125 looks like a bicycle tire    ::)

A 100 tire = a 120 Michelin
A 110 tire =  a 130 Michelin

Your 110 would be a 90 in anything else.I was told once Michelin takes their width measurement from farther down toward the bead.my s12 is stamped 130 and is the same width and fit as all my Dunlops,bridgestones,Kendas,Maxxis etc. in a 110.
Easy to get stung if you're not accustomed to running Michelins.My last set had a yellow sticker on it designating it as a 110-but 130 pressed into the rubber.
Weight wise,Michelins tend to be on the lighter side,on the other hand,I run bridgestone heavy duty tubes so it sort of negates that.Few people will run an S12 rear and not like it.I've got no love for the starcross series though,and the M12 rear is the worst tire ever produced imo.(but love the m12 front)
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: Stusmoke on March 15, 2013, 03:01:48 AM
you should consider the 204 and 203 mate. I run the set and they are awesome on the track. Don't go overboard on the site, stick with the 110. There is such a thing as too much traction and in soft , loamy dirt where the tires are at home, you simply can't flick it around with the throttle as much. I ordered a 100 for my 125, D**k heads sent me a 110 and it makes flicking the bike around difficult and if you fall of the pipe you go literally nowhere.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ford832 on March 15, 2013, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: Stusmoke on March 15, 2013, 10:01:48 AM
you should consider the 204 and 203 mate. I run the set and they are awesome on the track. Don't go overboard on the site, stick with the 110. There is such a thing as too much traction and in soft , loamy dirt where the tires are at home, you simply can't flick it around with the throttle as much. I ordered a 100 for my 125, D**k heads sent me a 110 and it makes flicking the bike around difficult and if you fall of the pipe you go literally nowhere.

A YZ would pull it. :D  ;)
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: Stusmoke on March 15, 2013, 12:05:24 PM
Quote from: ford832 on March 15, 2013, 05:37:49 PM
Quote from: Stusmoke on March 15, 2013, 10:01:48 AM
you should consider the 204 and 203 mate. I run the set and they are awesome on the track. Don't go overboard on the site, stick with the 110. There is such a thing as too much traction and in soft , loamy dirt where the tires are at home, you simply can't flick it around with the throttle as much. I ordered a 100 for my 125, D**k heads sent me a 110 and it makes flicking the bike around difficult and if you fall of the pipe you go literally nowhere.

A YZ would pull it. :D  ;)

If theres one compound word I had to use to describe you ford, its shit stire :D You are quite right though. My CR has about as much motor as my whipper snipper.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ford832 on March 15, 2013, 02:59:29 PM
Who,me?  ;D
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: SachsGS on March 15, 2013, 04:51:05 PM
Soft, medium or hard - you have to match the compound (and width) to the bike and the terrain. I ride offroad and plan to try out the Metzler 6 Days Extreme tires (same tires as Taddy), I've been hearing very good things about them. Continental and Heidenau are now producing off road tires at reasonable prices so I'm going to check them out this season as well, probably on my vintage bike.

 I never go cheap on tires, too easy to get hurt, and while I've tried lots of different brands over the years I always find myself back on the three brands I've mentioned.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: cnrcpla on March 15, 2013, 05:31:32 PM
I'm not ignoring your input Sachs I promise  ;D But Michelin seems to be the popular choice around here. So if I go with Michelin, I should look for a 130 so that it equates to a 110 by other standards. How about the durability? I ride everything from rocks, hard pack, to deep sand and mud (gotta love New England  ::) ). But I got a bunch of seasons to figure out the combo I like best, so I'll probably try all listed here and see what I get for results. The only reason I wanted to go up in tire size was because my friend on a 250f put on some 120's and seems to be able to hook way better (maybe due to the mellow power curve of a 250f though).

I think my front is good to go, it very rarely washes out and hold its own through pretty much anything, so I'm going to leave that be for now. It just seems the rear slides out and spins excessively.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ford832 on March 15, 2013, 09:07:57 PM
Ignore Sachs' input  :D,he's trying to sell you on 3 german tires-now who'da thunk it. ::)
I can't speak for the metzler 6 days,it may be the cat's arse,I've never used it.I have used Continental and metzler in the past and was very unhappy with all of them-of course,i haven't used every model either.
I really don't care what country a tire comes from,so long as it works.If I had the bucks and desire to change rear tires every ride,I'd run a Dunlop 756.The problem is,the edges wear quickly and when they do,performance drops of dramatically-not so with the S12.It wears but maintains performance when worn down.
Unless you ride the same track,I don't know how you can target one type of terrain.A typical ride around here will consist of granite,shale,sand,clay and goo.That's why I want a tire that performs well everywhere-maybe not the best for a given situation,but best all around.
I buy an s12,something else,another s12,something else and so on-always looking for a better skin. :)
New England terrain is about the same as NS so I expect an S12 would suit you well.
If you decide to get one,make sure it's an S12 XC.The XC's are a little harder and wear a little better-though both are great.
Your 250 has a 215 rim so a 110(130 michelin) is what you want.A 120(140M) will give you slightly better traction with slightly less cornering ability.It's not enough to be a big deal either way.
I have a 51 rear sprocket on mine and the clearance is the same as all the 110's I've had of other brands.
Whatever you decide,give us a RR.(btw,I run 12psi in mine)




Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: Stusmoke on March 15, 2013, 10:40:04 PM
If you're going to be riding in rocking and harsh terrain, forget the 204/203 combo cos that will shread them.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: rm250guy on March 16, 2013, 08:16:55 AM
you cant go wrong with the 952's....  our track here goes from sand to blue groove and the 952's both hook up great on the sand and dont seem to rip up so fast on the blue groove.  The Maxxis wear great on the hard pack but kinda suck in the sand.  Give the 952's a try and see what you think. Of course 110's for a 250...
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: SachsGS on March 16, 2013, 04:02:32 PM
I've run Metzler, Dunlop and Pirelli, love em all,and if I look at tire feel, grip, chunking and wear it seems the Metz is the best compromise for an offroad situation. I'd probably run Dunlops for MX.

As far as the Asian tires go I'll only touch the Japanese tires, I've run Bridgestone in the past and been happy.

The Conti's and the Heidenau's may be junk, I'll find out.

I've tried Michelins in the past and found them to be (for me) an imprecise tire. I hated them and, for the money I'd just get something else I know I'll be happy with.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ford832 on March 16, 2013, 04:08:58 PM
Agreed somewhat  ;D The S12 rear and M12 front may be anomalies,I can't name another Michelin combo I like,and the M12 rear is truly poison until it wears down some(and even then it's fairly grim)-unless you ride in sand.
The 952 is a good choice as well and good value.Modelled after the 752 with a little harder compound and wider knob base if I remember correctly.It's a decent tire at a good price point-but doesn't perform like the S12 XC imo.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: nom de guerre on March 16, 2013, 04:17:17 PM


Motoz Enduro ST is the best for the OP's needs... for a cheaper Asian tire, Duro is a good tire. 
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: Coop on March 16, 2013, 06:30:09 PM
For strictly trails only I've grown to love the MT43 trials tire. I've been running them off-road for 3 years now on my bikes. I wouldn't use one on an MX track though.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: msmola2002 on March 17, 2013, 01:16:51 AM
If you are running both woods and MX I'd be more concerned about your suspension. With suspensions stiff enough not to bottom on basic MX stuff I ran at the GNCC at unadilla and every time you hit something, like roots or a bump or whatever, the front end would bounce and try and send you into a tree. This is a 0.48 spring. For the winter stuff I have a softer set of forks, with a 0.45 front spring and it works so much better than the stiffer stuff and it was using much of the fork travel. Those numbers will mean precisely squat for your application, but should give you an idea that if you want to run something stiff enough for MX it will probably be too stiff for a hare scramble, and something soft enough to get through some tight bumpy woods stuff will be too soft  for MX jumps and you will bottom on everything.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: cnrcpla on March 17, 2013, 02:00:23 AM
I have been able to find a kind of happy-medium that requires minimum adjusting between woods and track. I run pretty stiff forks for the sake of track riding, and in the woods I try to let to front glide over stuff by leaning back, and the back I keep fairly plush so that everything I skim over with the front the back can absorb nicely. Of course this isn't the best method, as the front end picks up every time I get decent traction. I'm not a "big air" kind of guy, so you don't see me tripling up and flying like an FMX pro, but I see what your saying. As I get more comfortable with my new to me KYB suspension, I may end up becoming a mainly track racer, or try to make the best out of it with the suspension set up. Only time will tell.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: ktm150rippa on March 17, 2013, 04:48:06 AM
Pirelli scorpion on the front bridgestone 404 on the rear is my favorite combo. I ride mostly mx but ride a little bit of CC here and there.
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: scotty dog on March 22, 2013, 03:24:12 PM
I've always believed that if the tyre compound is suited to the terrain, is not overpriced,  and is the right size,  throw it on and go wear the bastard out ;)
Title: Woods and track tires?
Post by: Brap on March 24, 2013, 01:01:38 AM
I'm gonna be running some hare scrambles and im gonna being using a fresh set of MX51's so i'll tell you how it works out!